Threesomes in Sharjah
Sharjah is in the spotlight once again for illicit sex (is there any other kind in Sharjah?) But just for extra sleaze and juice, this time it's a threesome:
The woman, identified as R.S., told the public prosecution she was a "close family friend" to the man, identified as S.H., and his wife, identified as F.H.
It was heard that R.S. had sex more than once with the man, and she also allowed S.H.'s wife, to be intimate with her. The Sharjah Criminal Court accused R.S. of adultery and sentenced her to 120 lashes and three months in jail. The ruling was changed after the appeal to 90 lashes and three months in jail.
Who on earth came forward as a witness to all this domestic diddling? The houseboy, peeved that he wasn't taken on for a foursome? Or the gardener, barred from the bushes in the lady garden?
The woman, identified as R.S., told the public prosecution she was a "close family friend" to the man, identified as S.H., and his wife, identified as F.H.
It was heard that R.S. had sex more than once with the man, and she also allowed S.H.'s wife, to be intimate with her. The Sharjah Criminal Court accused R.S. of adultery and sentenced her to 120 lashes and three months in jail. The ruling was changed after the appeal to 90 lashes and three months in jail.
Who on earth came forward as a witness to all this domestic diddling? The houseboy, peeved that he wasn't taken on for a foursome? Or the gardener, barred from the bushes in the lady garden?
184 Comments:
Wait... the woman got charged with adultery? But neither the husband or the wife (in the married couple) were?
By my understanding of the word "adultery" - RS only committed adultery if she is married. It is the husband who committed adultery. And possibly his wife, though I think lesbian sex may be in a gray area.
How can an un-married person be charged with adultery? Does the word mean something different to Muslims? How can you cheat on your spouse, when you aren't married?
Once again, the Gulf Arab obsession with the ridiculously trivial. And Tribal Chief Maktoum wants to educate the region for $10 billion. LOL.
Sharjah is stupid anyways, what the hell gov. I just hope that this girl is not the bi girl whom I knew over the net a few weeks ago but did not meet yet ;)
According to Wikipedia:
"The penalty for adultery
In accordance with hadith, stoning to death is the penalty for married men and women who commit adultery. In addition, there are several conditions [....]. One of the difficult ones is that the punishment cannot be enforced unless there is a confession of the person, or four male eyewitnesses who each saw, simultaneously, the penis of the man inside the vulva of the woman. All of these must be met under the scrutiny of judicial authority. For unmarried men and women, the punishment prescribed in the Qur'an and hadith is 100 lashes [...]
Similarly, under Sharia a woman who is accused of adultery can not be punished unless there are four male eyewitnesses (or 8 female ones, since 2 females equal one male witness) to prove she did commit adultery [...]"
So it's all clear then: there must have been either four male witnesses within, say five metres of the diddling (to clearly see the "penis entering the vulva) - or the entire female neighbourhood.
Heck, Sharjah is becoming a Soho peep show!!
PS: Don't you love the bit that states "since 2 females equal one male witness". That's presumably because the Hadith knows that each man would be glued to the action whilst one of every two women would have been on her mobile phone, painting her fingernails or rummaging in her handbag for keys.
another one of 'em stupid uae laws! I agree with programmer craig, why would they charge the single woman with adultery? I think the proper term for that is fornication. hell knows which charge should be given to the wife, though! this is utterly funny!
well well well so the rumors are finally coming out proven by this news. there are a lot of whispers going around uae with orgy activities. interesting to learn given that it's a muslim country, huh? well, isn't that what america wants, to liberate the arab countries? what can i say, go uae and spread the word!
agnostic flip
and then UAE wants to get into United Nations... i am sure the guys who sit and make reports of the country use the UAE news as every day humor.
I missed the joke here.
Was just recalling the statistic of the UK having the highest number of teenage pregnancies in Europe.
Which is more "funny"?
which is more funny???!!!
You're comparing uk pregenancies to this story??!!
This is a very stupid thing to happen in a country that is littered with prostitutes and alcohol while it claims to be a muslim country.
Just take a look at the brothels in Dubai and see what's next door! Yes a mosque.
UAE is just a lego land. It's a joke.
By the way, before anyone asks me to "leave if I don't like it" .... I don't live there! There's more to life that Shake Mo's fantasies!
Anonymous @ 04 June, 2007 05:08
Why do you find it so weird to find a mosque beside a brothel? What is so contradictory about it? Don't you see godly men living in Las Vegas? There are strip clubs and churches in the same neighborhood all across the US and Europe. So whats the big deal?
Please understand that good and bad exist simultaneously. No one has ever claimed that Islamic Sharee'ah is all about wiping out evil COMPLETELY from humanity much less Dubai. There were functioning brothels in Afghanistan during Taliban rule, too. There are running brothels inside Iran even now.
The way you guys speak, really, it just shows that you guys are MAD frustrated! Since you are not in the UAE, you most probably have access to porn, but you are STILL frustrated! What does it take to satisfy a dimwit like you?
We Muslims choose to punish such crimes. Illicit sex is a big offense in our civilization and it is one reason why we have been able to maintain a strong institution of family. Just because your society is corroded with all sorts of sicknesses, and an all-but-dead family institution doesnt mean you take it all out on us.
If our practices frustrate you then keep crying all you want. You are only going to end up an emotional wreck and your tantrums is certainly not affecting anybody, but you.
Cheers.
>> i*maginate said...
>> I missed the joke here.
You mean, besides you?! What a moron!!!
BTW SD, I guess you are aware of the Gulf News reference to your blog:
http://www.gulfnews.com/technology/blogging/10129957.html
And please start a new column called "Sharjah Humour". Stories like these deserve to be on a pedestal!!!
Wow. I never new Sharjah folk could be so...kinky. As for the threesome, well...R.S was rightly charged but so should the husband as it takes (at least) two to tango.
On R.S and S.H getting 'intimate', ... I personally dont see Lesbian sex technically as real sex. There's no penetration, so no ruling can actually be made against the wife as far as I can tell...(although i did read a hadith in Sahih Bukhari a long, long time ago that stated mutual masturbation between females is not allowed).
Sorry to sound such a prude, but I support these laws (to an extent) as anything that can contribute to the reduction in STD's and unwanted pregancy's cant all be bad...and I personally feel sorry for any kids that have to grow up in that kind of warped household.
On the subject of gay and lesbian rights, well thats a different kettle of fish to deal with.
it would be interesting to compare verdicts of this case with these:
Youth claims two men raped and molested him in deserted area: http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Police_and_The_Courts/10129893.html
and this, Two men admit to having sex with visitor :
http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Police_and_The_Courts/10129941.html
Oh... and to top it all, this:
Death row rapist wins reprieve on appeal:
http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Police_and_The_Courts/10129873.html
From Death Row to 7 years :)
Fucking GREAT!
al-republican, well said. Saves me from having to knock some sense into the dimwit(s) in question.
Cotton-eye-Joe moron, prostitution is the oldest profession on this planet, in case you live on it and didn't know.
Anonymous, do you know what red light district means? There are plenty of them near not only churces, but cathedrals. Plenty of junkies shoot up near them. And?
So you think Dubai is lego-land. What's the problem? Couldn't afford to buy a piece of it?
Al R and I*maginate. Your logic is unassailable. What the *dimwits* don't understand is:
Prostitution is the oldest profession, therefore we don't close down brothels or interfere with their operations. But what you do in the privacy of your bedroom is very important to us. That's how we maintain the institution of family. Riiiiight?
can we get the reference link for the article
The thread is getting a bit chaotic. Let me try make sense of it.
In the Blue Corner we have 'a yahya', and 'Anonymous Muslim', 'al republican' and 'i*maginate' in a fetching gold and black burqa.
You guys are for strict punishment as it may help deter promisucous diddling etc., and think that Shari'a has something going for it.
In the Red Corner, wearing a magnolia see-through lacy number, we have 'cotton eye joe' and some 'arsehole anonymous' who like to play Lego and think that punishment per se , and the entire UAE are ridiculous anyway.
Our referee tonight is 'Programmer Craig' who tries to make some sense of what the fuck is going on in this place.
(I am sitting in the second row laughing.)
I almost vomit of hate everytime the price of oil increases. I hate all Arabs and shiek Moh and anyhting that make these bastards rich.
Thank you for reading my post.
Who knows what happened to one of the ruler's (of the Emirate in question) offspring whilst studying in the UK?
Our referee tonight is 'Programmer Craig' who tries to make some sense of what the fuck is going on in this place.
Thanks, Nick! I think I'll pass on that and just ask about the adultery charge, though :)
OK, so... let me get this strait. Scenario: I'm a typical unmarried 20 year old guy and I run into a woman at a nightclub / restaurant/ whatever. She's about 30 and drop dead gorgeous and she's a lot better than I could ever hope to pull, normally. But for some odd reason she has set her mind on seducing me. She says she is divorced and lonely, looking for company, etc. I of course, buy this without question because I'm 20 years old. Long story short, we end up in a hotel room. But it turns out she isn't really divorced. She's still married. I find out later when I try to call the number I snagged out of her purse while she was in the bathroom.
I'm an adulterer? For the rest of my life, I'm an adulterer?
How is the gravity of what I have done in ANY WAY similar to what she has done?
That's the part I don't understand. I can't really comment about punishing adulterers. It used to be a crime in America, too, a long time ago. Now, an Adultery charge is used primarily to show a grievance, during a divorce case. Also, for most Christians adultery is the only valid reason to get a divorce.
Not only do I object to punishing that woman so severely and not punishing the married man at all, I don't think she deserved to be branded an adulterer, either. I've never even heard of somebody trying to label an unmarried person as an adulterer in the US, even from a gossip. The whole idea seems absurd to me. The sin of adultery is being unfaithful to your spouse. That sin can't be committed by somebody who isn't married. Though, as a previous commenter pointed out, it would be "fornication". Christians love to condemn fornicators too, so I'm sure if she was charged with fornication, Pat Robertson himself would be court to testify against her. And the ghost of Jerry Falwell, too.
Not:
You have missed the point I was making. What my statements implied was that prostitution is NOT endorsed nor condoned by the government of Dubai. You may see the police cracking down on prostitution quite often.
But, it is the nature of this business that it will always continue and thrive no matter how stringent policies and checks are introduced. I would even say that I am sure there are some elements inside the government perhaps who might be supporting it covertly, but clearly they are breaking the law themselves! The UAE as a state does not condone nor promote prostitution, please get that fact straight. So I don't see the "hypocrisy" that you and your ilk are trying to point out here.
H in A says
Al Rep & Imaginate, obviously you are on a defend to death trip when there was no need to. Everytime something goes wrong in your country, you dont have to point fingers at the west or asia. Those countries do not claim to be paragons of virtue.we have problems there, and we are the first to accept it. we are laughing at you because you interpret your sharia in holier than everyone else colours, take the freedom and fun out of life,and act like all of you were born from heaven with no vices.you claim others are infidels. And we know what all goes on behind. And you are going red in the face defending it like we were born yesterday. You dont get it , do you? the joke is on both of you, not on the government, not on the 3 some. You are in perpetual denial. And i am definitely not going to drive in any sense. You guys dont deserve it. just for a moment, for arguments sake, true or false----dubai might have brothels---dubai might have pimps----dubai muslims might be drinking----dubai mulsims might also be doing drugs...and some rapes for good measure...all false yes?
oh well...cant be emiraatis, must be asians in the labor camp right. we emiratis are true believers, and we never do any wrong, and in case we do we dont catch them, and if we do catch them we dont punish them, and then we blame expats, and if nothing else works we comapre with other countries and throw statistics, and confuse the shit out of the issue.
anyone for a 3 some?
Forgive me for not addressing each and every of your points, H&A and programmer craig: frankly, I can't be bothered to, though I really would love to. I'll say what I can, though.
programmer craig: we are not in the US: simple response to your points. The UAE has its own laws. Don't like it, tough! ^_^
H&A, seconding al-republican's words about some here being 'frustrated', well that's what *you* are from your comment. I don't see any frustration in mine nor al-republican's comment. Defending what? "pointing fingers at the west" -- hmm getting defensive, are you?
The bottom line is you all KNOW what the points me and al-republican are making, regardless of us having to make them in the first place. Note: that's why I don't even bother looking up stats or going into deep arguments on this blog. Wouldn't want to 'confuse' the likes of you even more..
The only 'denial' here is that which you are facing...wake up to the fact that laws do differ from country to country...and good luck changing the world. If you don't succeed, well, you could always apply for a job at the local labour camp that you so passionately refer to...
Hi fanatical muslims. You are right. I agree. I completely endorse Sharjah's half-arsed take on sharia. The more 'adulterers' we whip, the less people will have illicit sex. Right? Right?
Cracking down on threesomes will _definitely_ halt the spread of STDs. Look at Saudi (heck, twosomes there between women and men are a bit risky, although it's a bit of a gay paradise). There's no AIDS at all there, is there?
And certainly no gays. Haram boys, haram!
i*maginate,
programmer craig: we are not in the US: simple response to your points. The UAE has its own laws. Don't like it, tough! ^_^
You were pointing out that it was your laws that prevented UAE from being as immoral as the west. I was pointing out that your laws (or their enforcement) themselves, are immoral. It's *immoral* to punish an unmarried person for adultery, which is a crime that only married people can commit.
*immoral*
Let me say that one more time. It is *immoral*.
Just to be clear, immoral means it's wrong, according to commonly accepted standards of decency.
I did not comment on the punishment. That's not my business. But I do have a right to comment on a judicial system, anywhere in the world, that is immoral. I have that right as a human being.
As for the comments about prostitution- I hope that when these "crackdowns" occur, that the married men found having relations with prostitutes are prosecuted for adultery, because they are in fact, adulterers. And UAE prosecutes adulterers. Right?
Somehow, I suspect that isn't what happens though. Please correct me if I'm wrong, i*maginate.
Now you can tell me "tough! ^_^" again, but since you passed moral judgments about my culture, I feel I have a right to return the favor. Don't like it? Then keep your opinions about the west to yourself, and I'll do the same.
H to the Izz-O (H in A):
Hehe, thanks for your emotional outburst. I will try responding to it when it makes sense to me.
Programmer Craig:
In all honesty, I find this ruling weird, too. An unmarried person is not an adulterer as you rightly point out. However, I believe this is an error on the reporters part and NOT the Judiciary. The sentence handed out to the woman is that of a fornicator. See, you could have avoided all this confusion (already the reporter here has exacerbated the matter by careless reporting) had you known the shar'ee rulings for fornicators and adulterers.
Let me further add that the fornicator is to be awarded 100 lashes, no more and no less. Why? Because it is the Divine Law (refer to Surah Nur's introductory verses in the Quran). Because this woman was awarded 120 lashes and later on appeal her sentence was decreased to 90 lashes, my guess is that she got lashes awarded for crimes OTHER than sexual indulgences. In fact, I can be very sure about this and again this reporter has not given details of the hearing. Also, I didn't find a link to this article over here (SD?).
As for why the husband and wife did not get punished, I am at a loss for an explanation. There can be many reasons for it, but I wouldn't like to guess and further complicate a badly reported incident, which was picked up by SD and further complicated by not being able to pick up the reporter's fault here, and further exacerbated by people's confusion over fornication and adultery.
Let me just add this much that both fornication and adultery are refered to as "Zina" in Arabic. And since the ruling was given in Arabic, this particular reporter (whom I am guessing is not English) mistranslated. It is an error that I could very easily make because I am not a native English speaker. But, my educated guess is that the Judge did not award the punishments of illegal sexual intercourse because quite clearly a fornicator can't get 120 or 90 lashes. The number is fixed at 100.
Finally, I am not an Arab :)
Someone here said..
"We Muslims choose to punish such crimes. Illicit sex is a big offense in our civilization...."
Is there a common thing called "Muslim civilisation'?
worlds know about ancient egypt and persian/Iranian (these are pre islamic)Indian,greece,china civilisations etc
Islam is just a religion (which came into exisitance around 622 A.D ).which unfortunatly failed to coexist and adopt the ways of the civilized world.
Only claim to fame is stupid sharia laws and converting people by sword...if you look at the histories of egypt,iran,india etc.you will come to know this fact.
programmer craig..have all the opinions you want, as I'll have mine...glad we got that covered!
"You were pointing out that it was your laws that prevented UAE from being as immoral as the west."
Haha. I didn't say this nor imply it. Read my words carefully from the first comment down. You see? Your opinion stems from the "perpetual denial"/"red in the face" image you have of those who don't follow your own systems, which is the point of this whole blog: to slag off the UAE and promote other systems. And all this, written by somebody who lives in the UAE.
Perhaps I can repeat my main point using other words: when I drew comparisons between the sole 'adultery' case and the UK having the highest no. of teen pregnancies in Europe, it really shows where the joke lies. I never referred to any of your points about the judicial system - that's not the point I was making. Perhaps SD can pull out an article to respond to the question you've posed...she's an expert at it, and you guys have nothing better to do than to laugh at others' cultures when you can be taking a deeper look into your own systems and flaws. Interesting how there's no space for that on this blog.
I'll try and make it clearer: my own comments here are not 'tit for tat' - have you guys honestly not got anything better to do than to poke fun at other cultures? I guess not more than me, who's laughing at you laughing. (note that's not directed at you though programmer craig)
I wasn't passing moral judgements, I was drawing comparisons, and attempting to put some balance into this obviously anti-anything-but-west attitude that's so prevalent on this blog. I've never once seen anything positive on Dubai on SDs blog.
And the best comment award goes to:
H in A
"You dont get it , do you? the joke is on both of you, not on the government, not on the 3 some."
Nobody could've said it better!!! But do they get it? Of course not!!!
H in A says
Al Rep & Imaginate
So you dont take on arguments that you dont have a reply to, do we... and whatever you dont have a reply becomes " confused and emotional, make no sense " does it. Well there is news, it makes sense to most people with a rational brain. Wish you could read your replies most of the time. you would laugh your own ass off...seeing how only the emotional part of the brain seems to be working. There is also supposed to be a rational part...dont know whatever happened to it. I guess it is all ritualistic teachings have wiped out any ability to take on issues within your own culture and question it. that would be punishable by death then wouldnt it be.
Guys dont waste time pointing fingers at other countries...like I said we know what the problems there are, and it gets written enough on news, and we are the first to acknowledge it. No denial there. unlike your famous gulf news.
hey nick, can I sit next to you?
Ninety lashes? Wow.
Here's the link.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/06/03/10129514.html
download youtube videos at http://www.mvscorp.com/ and click on the ads to continue the service
H in A said:
"Everytime something goes wrong in your country, you dont have to point fingers at the west or asia."
"Guys dont waste time pointing fingers at other countries"
I have read the comments and I dont see anyone blaming or "pointing fingers" at the west. You have just proved who is talking rationally and who not. :P
i*maginate,
Craig said: "You were pointing out that it was your laws that prevented UAE from being as immoral as the west."
i*maginate saad: Haha. I didn't say this nor imply it. Read my words carefully from the first comment down. You see?
No, I don't see. Here is your first comment:
i*maginate said: Was just recalling the statistic of the UK having the highest number of teenage pregnancies in Europe.
That's a moral judgment.
Then, al-Republican said: We Muslims choose to punish such crimes. Illicit sex is a big offense in our civilization and it is one reason why we have been able to maintain a strong institution of family. Just because your society is corroded with all sorts of sicknesses, and an all-but-dead family institution doesnt mean you take it all out on us.
That's an all out condemnation of western morality. And a defense of yours.
To which you said: al-republican, well said. Saves me from having to knock some sense into the dimwit(s) in question.
That's a wholehearted endorsement of what al-republican said.
So, would you care to retract your statements that you were not condemning western morals in this thread?
I'll respond to some of your latest comment anyway.
Your opinion stems from the "perpetual denial"/"red in the face" image you have of those who don't follow your own systems, which is the point of this whole blog: to slag off the UAE and promote other systems. And all this, written by somebody who lives in the UAE.
I don't live in the UAE. And I'll be damned if I'll let you advocate a barbaric and inhuman legal system while at the same time condemning the one I live under, and not say anything about it. To hell with that.
When did Islam claim the moral high ground? Is there anyone on the planet earth that has set up more immoral societies than Muslim ones?
Tell me why 60% of Muslims support murder of the innocent if it's done in the name of their God? Tell me how that is moral?
I won't even get into Islamic laws on sex, that's triviality compared to murder of innocents. What the hell does the Quran say about murdering innocents, i*maginate?
When Muslims spit on one of God's laws, why should anybody listen when they pretend they follow another? Muslims have made Islam into an object of contempt, and loathing. And you expect westerners to show respect for it? Why should we pretend we respect a religion that most Muslims seem to believe gives them permission to murder us?
Actually, by most religious definitions, adultery is *any* sex outside of marriage, whether you are married or unmarried.
The popular definition that p-craig and others are using, that adultery can only be committed by a married person, is not correct in religious law. In normal conversation it's fine.
"Tell me why 60% of Muslims support murder of the innocent if it's done in the name of their God? "
Craig, when you lie or distort figures to suit your agenda, don't expect people to take you seriously.
Figures of 70% of the total worldwide population of non-Muslims population supporting killing innocent Muslims can also be created out of thin dust.
Not that they dont exist, you are ignoring that there are many Non-Muslims who would love for innocent Muslims to die.
Most Muslims dont support killing of innocents, otherwise you would have seen far more killings in Muslim countries.
wannabe, adultery is not a "religious" crime. It is and always has been a *societal* crime, in every culture, for as long as males and females have gotten married.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery
Various religions have also instated religious penalties for it, but religion did not define adultery. Human nature did. And you don't have to be religious at all to see that adultery is morally wrong, and one of the most hurtful things one person can do to another.
Any religious interpretation of adultery that includes "any sex outside of marriage" as adultery is out of sync with the historical (and current) understanding of what adultery is. And sane person can see how much more grievous an injury it is when a married person cheats on their marriage (life) partner than for somebody to just have sex when they aren't married.
And I'm still wondering if married men caught in the act with prostitutes get charged with adultery in UAE. Can anybody answer that?
"And sane person can see how much more grievous an injury it is when a married person cheats on their marriage (life) partner than for somebody to just have sex when they aren't married."
Strongly disagree. Ask the local priest - one who's sane.
"And I'm still wondering if married men caught in the act with prostitutes get charged with adultery in UAE. Can anybody answer that?"
Don't try!
programmer craig, who cares what I'm condemning? I thought you were having a laugh condemning the inhumane and barbaric whatever system in wherever. You'd like to think I'm condemning 'your culture', and you use this as an excuse to have even more fun condemning 'my' culture! Let the fun begin!
If you think that me recalling a statistic of the UK having the highest number of teenage pregnancies accross Europe - as reported in the media - is a moral judgement, then I can see how you interpret FOX News!
Therein lies the source of your opinions.
"And all this, written by somebody who lives in the UAE." - was referring to SD.
Killing of innocents: are you talking about EYE-RAQ? Didn't think so...
Can someone here please explain where Sheikh Mcdollars got his ten billion that he promised to give away?
I think its very important to know that, dont you think?
comments here have become completely out of the topic and i am writing one.
you can go on exchanging cuss words and hatred, and shit on other culture's ill practices, and it will go on forever. Thing is, these differences defines the world that we have. Whether we like it or not, there's always something that correlates one from the other -the parallel relation (i.e. religion, culture) of being christian and muslim, or protestants and catholics, western and non western cultures- and it has its own definitive principles different from the other. What SD's having here in the comments is not to convince nor convert one person to be on one side. Our civilization has evolved because of our ability to communicate amongst culture which has boundaries but at the same time can be extended beyond those boundaries to learn better. This is going beyond the boundary which means understanding and respecting each differences. Well, I may be succumbing to dreaming of a utopian world but at least try to have an open mind.
By all means, I'm not really fond of muslims not because of their religion but because of how this minority in my country has caused a lot of trouble, but beyond that, we try to communicate and keep an open mind - try to cohabit as human beings first and foremost. I mean, we could go on and fight till the strongest rule, but at the end of the day religion/culture should be just a guiding light and principle. I don't understand why people who strongly believe in a god/or in their culture, or an allah or whatever names you have to a superior being tend to be more warfreak than those who are less inclined to their religious faith or cultural affinity. This in the first place is being hypocritical! There you are trying to defend your religion or your culture or what have you but at the same time trying to destroy or put to shame the other religion/culture only because one feels superior than the other. come on people, we could go on throw bombs or send suicide bombers, and this will never end until we try to at least just understand and respect our differences.
and how come some of you couldn't just understand what a constructive criticism is? shame for people who were planted with brains but fails to use a major part of it which can be likened to a monkey.
agnostic filipino
i*maginate,
Are you Christian? Because I've been Christian all my life, and I don't much like having you tell me what my own religion teaches.
I don't think there is Christian clergyman in the United States that would try to claim adultery could be a sin committed by a single person.
Please doin';t toss of comments like "ask a local Priest" when you have no idea what you are talking about. Isn't that what you spend so much time complaining about re: UAE?
You come across lie a hypocrite. This is the second time in the same thread that you have been guilty of exactly what you are here to whine about.
You didn't answer the question about whether married men caught having relations with prostitutes in UAE are prosecuted for adultery. If they are not, then how can you take the position that it's somehow moral to prosecute an unmarried woman for having possibly non-consensual sex for adultery?
Yes. Let the games begin. I'm perfectly willing to compare your moral values, to mine. You don't actually seem to have any, as far as I can tell.
Killing of innocents: are you talking about EYE-RAQ? Didn't think so...
Why shouldn't I talk about Iraqis?
Have you seen this story? :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070608/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
BAGHDAD - Carloads of attackers descended on a police chief's house northeast of Baghdad at dawn Friday, killing the official's wife, two brothers and 11 guards, and kidnapping three of his grown children, Diyala provincial police reported.
Are those your moral Islamic holy warriors, i*maginate?
What does the Quran say happens to a Muslim who murders a Muslim? Do you know? Or do I have to find the surrah for you? I can and will, if you wish.
agnostic filipino,
come on people, we could go on throw bombs or send suicide bombers, and this will never end until we try to at least just understand and respect our differences.
I will never understand, nor respect, a religion whose adherents think it's OK to murder me and mine. Sorry. And, it will end. It will end when Muslims no longer believe that it's OK to victimize non-Muslims. Or, when Islam ceases to exist.
There is no requirement, or even moral obligation, to be tolerant of a violently intolerant religion. In fact... that in itself would be immoral.
Its about time the 'western' world understood that logic and reasoned debate are pointless when it come to debating issues such as these. We muslims are bigots because we believe (and know) that our religion is the most modern, up to date and best religion in the world. There, end of argument...
By the way anyone notice You Tube is blocked again..?
Programmer Craig.....
The dude with verbal diarrhoea. Hey aren’t you the people that exterminated continents. North America, South America, Caribbean, Australia, invaded the entire world and pretty much every country that exists. Destroyer of thousands and thousands of cultures.
You literally exterminated them because they were the wrong colour. Idiot. Yeah bring it on, show us how the west is civilised. I am waiting for your reply, programmer of shit.
Programmer Craig said, "Are you Christian? Because I've been Christian all my life, and I don't much like having you tell me what my own religion teaches."
Yet, you are going on here teaching us what Islam teaches and stands for, hehe. Ready to quote us Islamic material, no less! Such a typical, ignorant, hypocritical American scum.
Your nauseatingly bigoted views are best illustrated by these loathful words of yours, "There is no requirement, or even moral obligation, to be tolerant of a violently intolerant religion. In fact... that in itself would be immoral."
It is this persistence on your ignorance that is leading you to the epitomy of ludicrousness. You have made the case for the extermination of an entire culture and faith of over a billion people. You make the fascist Nazis look like Saints! Is it any surprise you guys have idiots like Pat Robertson and that waste of a mother's 9 months of excruciating efforts, Falwell.
And while you give us the banter of your moral uprightedness, we all know (as anonymous points out) of what your sick nation has done to others and continues to do so today. While you can sit here and claim with evangelic zest about how evil Islam is, it is your folks who are occupying a free, sovereign nation and destroying it. I have some news flash for you: There were no suicide bombers in Eye-rack before the yanks came in.
And why do you find it hard for people like myself to believe that Iraq is a success? I dont even think it is premature to say so. Yes, it is ugly in Iraq, but guess what, American Idiot on a red-neck agenda, had your whankers not been so bogged down in Eye-rack you sickos were all gung-ho about attacking Syria and Iran next.
Alas, now you guys want to TALK to Iran and Syria to help you out of the Iraqi mess, hehe. You guys are such jokers!
The Myth:
Religious minorities have flourished under Islam. Muslims are commanded to protect Jew and Christians (the People of the Book) and to do them no harm.
The Truth:
Religious minorities have not “flourished” under Islam. In fact, they have dwindled to mere shadows after centuries of persecution and discrimination. Some were converted from their native religion by brute force, others under the agonizing strain of dhimmitude.
What Muslims call “tolerance,” others correctly identify as institutionalized discrimination. The consignment of Jews and Christians to dhimmis under Islamic rule means that they are not allowed the same religious rights and freedoms as Muslims. They cannot share their faith, for example, or build houses of worship without permission.
Historically, dhimmis have often had to wear distinguishing clothing or cut their hair in a particular manner that indicates their position of inferiority and humiliation. They do not share the same legal rights as Muslims, and must even pay a poll tax (the jizya). They are to be killed or have their children taken from them if they cannot satisfy the tax collector’s requirements.
For hundreds of years, the Christian population in occupied Europe had their sons taken away and forcibly converted into Muslim warriors (known as Jannisaries) by the Ottoman Turks.
It is under this burden of discrimination and third-class status that so many converted to Islam over the centuries. Those who didn’t often faced economic and social hardships that persist to this day and are appalling by Western standards of true religious tolerance and pluralism.
For those who are not “the People of the Book,” such as Hindus and atheists, there is very little tolerance to be found once Islam establishes political superiority. The Qur’an tells Muslims to “fight in the way of Allah” until “religion is only for Allah.” The conquered populations face death if they do not establish regular prayer and charity in the Islamic tradition (ie. the pillars of Islam).
Tamerlane and other Muslim warriors slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Hindus and Buddhists, as well as displacing or forcibly converting millions more over the last thousand years.
At best, Islam has a dual personality toward other religions. In some places they are explicitly cursed by Allah, in others there appears to be a measure of tolerance shown. There are about 500 verses in the Qur’an that speak of Allah’s hatred for non-Muslims and the punishment that he has prepared for their unbelief. There is also a tiny handful that say otherwise, but these are mostly earlier verses that many scholars consider to be abrogated by the later, more violent ones.
If tolerance simply means discouraging the mass slaughter of those of a different faith, then today's Islam generally meets this standard more often than not. But, if tolerance means allowing people of other faiths the same religious liberties that Muslims enjoy, then Islam is fundamentally the most intolerant religion under the sun.
The Myth:
The Qur’an places men and women on equal foundation before Allah. Each person is judged according to his or her own deeds. Women have equal rights under Islamic law.
The Truth:
Merely stating that individuals will be judged as such by Allah does not mean that they have equal rights and roles, or that they are judged by the same standards. In fact, Sura 37:22-23 implies that women will be punished on Judgment Day for sins committed by their husbands.
There is no ambiguity in the Qur’an, the life of Muhammad, or Islamic law as to the inferiority of women to men, despite the efforts of modern-day apologists to salvage Western-style feminism from scraps and fragments of verses that have historically held no such progressive interpretation.
After military conquests, Muhammad would dole out captured women as war prizes to his men. In at least one case, he advocated that they be raped in front of their husbands. Captured women were made into sex slaves by the very men who killed their husbands and brothers. There are at least three Qur’anic verses in which Allah makes it clear that a Muslim master has full sexual access to his female slaves, yet there is not one that prohibits rape.
The Qur’an gives Muslim men permission to beat their wives for disobedience. It plainly says that husbands are “a degree above” wives. The Hadith says that women are intellectually inferior, and that they comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants.
Under Islamic law, a man may divorce his wife at the drop of a hat. If he wishes to remarry her, then she must first have sex with another man. Men are exempt from such degradations.
Muslim women are not free to marry whomever they please, as are Muslim men. Their husband may bring other wives into the marriage bed. She must be sexually available to him at all times (as a field ready to be “tilled,” according to the holy book ).
Muslim women do not inherit property in equal portions to males. Their testimony in court is considered to be worth only half that of a man’s. Unlike a man, she must cover her head and often her face.
If a woman wants to prove that she was raped, then there must be four male witnesses to corroborate her account. Otherwise she will be jailed or stoned to death for confessing to “adultery.”
Given all of this, it is quite a stretch to say that men and women have “equality under Islam” based on obscure theological analogies or comparisons. This is an entirely new stratagem that is designed to appeal to modern tastes, but is in sharp disagreement with the reality of Islamic law and history.
programer craig said
"You didn't answer the question about whether married men caught having relations with prostitutes in UAE are prosecuted for adultery"
Of course they are, who said they are not!
And yes about the story you so easily quoted from yahoo, programmer craig I could also show you lots of stories of American "civilised" soldiers torturing and killing civilians not just in Iraq, but in many countries all over the world. Man the list is endless.
"Tell me why 60% of Muslims support murder of the innocent if it's done in the name of their God? Tell me how that is moral?"
Whoa! Programmer craig, can you give us references for that, or is this something of your paranoid hat! I cant but laugh at your accusations! 60%, man you gotta be kidding! Yeah you have been watching too much of Fox news lately!
Islam does not order killing of innocents at all, but I dont think there is any need to talk sense into people like you who have already made up their illogical opinions.
Craig,
you are wasting your time here. i know you won't let go of an argument if it ran away from you, but you must realize that you will not be able to find common ground with the kind of blinkered people who have been indoctrinated their entire lives with islamic suprematist and anti-semitic 'values'.
I bet i*maginate looks like a perfectly cosmopolitan modern young lady with i*pod and i*mate (NB: pun!)with a western Bcom. degree in PR and highlights and lacey thongs etc. (sorry, I'm getting carried away here)
BUT in reality she's a zombie, ready to wage a PR jihad against America and Israel and stab us infidels to death with her Blahniks.
Seriously, the UAE may be one of the most liberal Arab countries but is nonetheless an islamic society that does not accept any criticism of islam, scholarly and constructive as it may be; actively censores free speech and web access, blocks all .il web domains; a country where the media is unashamedly partisan pro-arab and pro-palestinian and anti-israeli to the point of hysteria; and where people boycott danish butter because of a couple of drawings. (You couldn't make this up!!)
And I repeat, this is one of the most secular and liberal Arab countries.
Craig, you will not be able to engage in balanced discussion in a country where you can only find Chomsky and Said's books on the Middle East, and Bernard Lewis' works have never been stocked! [I had to order mine at great expense form abroad :( ]
To Craig's cheerleader, Nick......
Surprisingly you have ignored the factthat Craig lied in his post. The 60 % figure is straight from his imagination, but apparently there is no problem in that because he has criticized Muslims.
Bonjourno programmer craig, the anon at 08.23 10th June wasn't me fyi.
"Are you Christian? Because I've been Christian all my life, and I don't much like having you tell me what my own religion teaches."
I have better things to do than to teach you anything, programmer craig...I would like to understand though, which major religion permits sex before marriage, and which doesn't interpret this as "grievous" - i.e. a sin? Since you know a lot about religion, please state what you think the major religions state on this.
It's a little ignorant (polite word) to assume anyone with a perspective different to yours wouldn't come from your own relgion/culture/background! There are always two sides to the story and I was trying to add some colour to your black & white views/fox news (sorry, I had to)!
Look at the furore my first comment sparked: an opportunity for Muslim-bashing just because of a stat about another country in the 'civilised' world! If I say McDonalds sucks does it mean I hate America? Aren't there any Americans who hate McDonalds? What's that cute guy's name...Michael Moore?? !!!
Chill out, and stop being paranoid!
nick, hilarious profile you made up there. Now how on earth would you conclude I own an ipod when you've just advised me on another blog how to watch youtube? (thx) By the way, I don't like lace, I'm not a Western-influenced cross-dresser, and I speak English better than Bush.
Hmmm, I see alot of quotes from zionists, and neo conservatives publications here.
You can see it, in their dhimmi quotations. Or When they hype the chief orientalist bernard lewis. Just to say by the way, Edward Said, and Chomsky's ideas have been accepted even by Western Universities, and are the accepted literature.
The only reason the orientalists are making a comeback is becasue of recent happenings, and it suits the ideas of "the status quo". I.e the thinking of Bush Cheney, and their neo conservatist think tanks.
The neo conservative are by the way just an american branch of the israeli likud party.
Can I just remind you the neo conservatives have not only destroyed the middle east with their Israel agenda. But have also destroyed America. Their have destoyed habeas corpus with their anti terror bills. You have torture officially sactioned by the US govt, random detentions, extra judicial killings. Basically America behaves like Israel now.
I advise you not to bother debating with some of the people here. They just work you up for nothing. These arguments you are currently having are all repeats, its like watching the same story over and over again. Now it lets get rid of the muslims, Jihadis, Saddam, before that it was the viet congs, and before communists, and well before that it was the only good Indian is a dead indian during the extermination of the native americans.
The fact of the matter is they have destroyed Iraq, and were it not for the insurgency, they would have had another "cake war" all over in the middle east.
Can any White Brit or American explain how what you have done in Iraq fits in the " Super open Intelligent western society argument " you are trying to make here ?
You shit racist fucks have killed more Muslims than you can imagine in the name of bullshit justifications and you come here to educate us that you are more tolerant?!!!
If I was British or American Ill shut up about human rights for next century at least. Shame on you.
Anonymous @ 10 June, 2007 00:12 AND 10 June, 2007 00:14
Wow, you typed all that shyte within 2 minutes?? Quite clearly you are cut/pasting off of a Islamophobic website run by Patty and Co.
Thank you for your time, but you are just here to spread misinformation (although all of that trash sounded more like stories out of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves!) so I won't even bother trying to set the record straight for you.
To Nick:
I am guessing you are American, too? One can cut through your entire balderdash by the simple fact that you are UNAWARE that Arabs are themselves SEMITES! So you are telling us that Arabs are anti-themselves??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic
Just goes to show how pathetically uneducated you folks are! You guys are such jokers! :)
Al-Republican,
And why do you find it hard for people like myself to believe that Iraq is a success? I dont even think it is premature to say so.
Well, good. Then you will have no reason to complain when similar successes for Islam are visited upon all the nations of the middle east.
Alas, now you guys want to TALK to Iran and Syria to help you out of the Iraqi mess, hehe. You guys are such jokers!
Who is this "you guys"? We don't need any help to get out of the Iraqi mess. We can invade either Syria or Iran, in a week's time... using the troops in Iraq to spearhead it. Tada! No US troops in Iraq. I've been calling for US troops to be pulled out of Iraq for almost 2 years. I don't believe in Nation building, and I don't believe the US has a responsibility to try and provided security in Iraq.
You throw around these bigoted stereotypes, and then accuse me of racism. Cute.
I won't bother to reply to anything else you wrote. You are the enemy. The war on terror will be over, when you and others like you are no more.
one of the "Anonymous":
Whoa! Programmer craig, can you give us references for that, or is this something of your paranoid hat! I cant but laugh at your accusations! 60%, man you gotta be kidding!
I wish I was. Don't you even read studies done on Muslim attitudes? Well, I'm not here to educate you. I'm here to explain why some really bad shit is heading your way. If you'd rather live in denial, more power to you. I'm sure you will be very happy when Muslims win an Iraqi style "Islamic victory" in your country, too. That is, assuming that there are still Americans who would rather invade instead of just bombing people back to the stone age. Which I am not certain of. You guys don't have any Armies to send against ours, so what point is there in invading?
Nick, you're right. But I've found there are some Arabs in the ME who are capable of rational discussion who don't just parrot propaganda slogans and Islamic doctrine, verbatim. I find (surprisingly) that I can discuss these things with a lot of Libyans, for instance. And Lebanese. And Iraqis. Jordan is nuts. I don't know much about the Gulf states but I do have to admit, they are the worst of the lot from what I've been able to see in the last few years reading Arab blogs.
By "worst" I am of course not including Palestinians.
I don't think it's a lost cause, Nick. I think (or hope, at least) that Muslims in general and Arabs in particular will tire of what their bigotry and violence against others has bought them. I hope that, because the laws of nature indicate that the alternate to change is death.
Gotta agree with Nick. Its pointless hoping for an intelligent conversation with these guys whose second nature is extreme shameless hypocrisy. Take for instance our resident "know-all" Mr. Re-pub. On one hand he goes on a venomous verbal diarrhea against anything remotely associated with the west. On the other he licks enough ar**s to somehow make it to the land of the free to get educated and get that all important seal of approval from the "infidels". What a joke these blokes are!!
Craig, I couldn't have said it any better than Nick just did. As they say, one has to go away in order to come back.
Nick, in addition to Chomsky & Said's books, there's Mein Kampf too in Arabic.
I beleive that people posting their comments here are of two types .
the first type is the idiots westerns who are very narrow minded to see anything good in any place other thatn their own world , to give you an example let me tell you this : the americans makes fun of the following " canadians , mexicans , cubans , frnech , poish , germans , japanese , chinese , arabs , african , russian ) soo what is left ??? ONLY THEM , Only their country ... so its not us the arabs who think we are without a vice .
another example is in europe , like the french and brits making fun of eachother , even inside the UK .. you guys are faaaar away from being able to accept THE OTHER .
However , Islam , and arabs inforce us to accept each and every nationality , and the hadith and quran are prove to that.
However I admit that bringing YOU to the country was in th wrong time , we needed you to build our countries but you didnt brought projects only ..you also brought all of your dirty things and thoughs --3some is one of em -- ..20 YRZ AGO there was no arab who know what is a 3 some ? !!!
The second type of people are people defending all the way , I guess if we want to make out middle east world better , talking and debating is not the right strategy . Lets all focus on work and on our religion and maybe 20 to 30 years they will just move away from here .
I HATE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF WESTERNS ...Guys you know what ?:) You dont even wash yourselves after you use the toilets ...u r disgusting !!!! I mean I cant imagine how do you smeel down there OH MY GOD U R REALY DISGUSTING
"You dont even wash yourselves after you use the toilets"
Translation: "Westerners invented toilet paper".
So, Anon, I take it your household has never had toilet paper in it?
What a pathetic, foolish, hypocritical and ignorant opinion.
Of the "two types of people posting their comments here", you certainly fit neither.
Your school of thought with ref to your last para is no worse than the statement by another Anon above "I hate all Arabs and shiek Moh and anyhting that make these bastards rich."
Cotton-eye-Joe, our "resident" Mr repub is a know-it-all, contrary to your pretty little summary. If you can't debate intelligently yourself, it's not quite so intelligent to label a know-it-all as hypocritical.
"venomous verbal diarrhea against anything remotely associated with the west."
"Venemous" - is that the new word of the day on fox news for anything outside of the "civilised" world? Your sentiments towards anything but the West are all sweet as sugar, of course!
The "land of the free" might be equated with world-class education but according to world history and current events, it's also known for a whole load of other things. Which, of course, you wouldn't know about, and Al Rep is here to inform you about.
HAHA!!!!!
Look at what you started SD! A rather hilarious bitch fighting session .
You should have just exercised self-censorship like all the other great journalists we have in this country and kept your mouth shut.
Don't fix it it if it ain't broken. UAE sure as hell ain't broken! ;-)
@ Muslim
“To Craig's cheerleader, Nick......”
ROFL – he’ll be laughing his socks off - me, his cheerleader ???!!!
--------------------------
@i*maginate
“and I speak English better than Bush.”
That’s not very difficult, Dear.
----------------------------
@ Anonymous
“Or When they hype the chief orientalist bernard lewis.[...] Edward Said, and Chomsky's ideas have been accepted even by Western Universities [...]”
Your reading comprehension is pathetic. This is NOT about the merits of either Lewis or Said. What I said was that there is a lack of balanced information accessible / available in Arab countries. That’s all. I just want to be able to read both Said and Lewis, both Robert Fisk and Samuel Huntington!!
------------------------
@ al-republican
“To Nick: ……. One can cut through your entire balderdash by the simple fact that you are UNAWARE that Arabs are themselves SEMITES! So you are telling us that Arabs are anti-themselves”
No, you pedantic dimwit.
“ The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to ANTI-JEWISH sentiment”
– and as such it has been commonly used ever since!
The semitic peoples as ethnicities diverged a very long time ago. In terms of language of course Hebrew and Arabic amongst others go back to the same semitic roots.
And this quote is from the very same source you quoted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
----------------------------
@ programmer craig
“I think (or hope, at least) that Muslims in general and Arabs in particular will tire of what their bigotry and violence against others has bought them.”
Well, “Inshallah”....
But only if the people on the Arab street had broad access to unbiased information !! (which they haven’t).
--------------------
@Anonymous
“ You dont even wash yourselves after you use the toilets ...u r disgusting !!!! I mean I cant imagine how do you smeel down there”
I don’t know what I “smeel” down there, but YOU seem to know...
people sure do have a lot of free time on their hands
by the way its been 8 days since we've heard from SD; should we fear the worst? CID raid, police arrest..
@ Muslim
“To Craig's cheerleader, Nick......”
ROFL – he’ll be laughing his socks off - me, his cheerleader ???!!!
------------------
@i*maginate
“and I speak English better than Bush.”
That’s not very difficult, Dear.
----------------------
@ Anonymous
“Or When they hype the chief orientalist bernard lewis [...]Edward Said, and Chomsky's ideas have been accepted even by Western Universities [...]”
Your reading comprehension is pathetic. This is NOT about the merits of either Lewis or Said. What I said was that there is a lack of balanced information accessible / available in Arab countries. That’s all. I just want to be able to read both Said and Lewis, both Robert Fisk and Samuel Huntington!!
-------------------------
@ al-republican
“To Nick: ……One can cut through your entire balderdash by the simple fact that you are UNAWARE that Arabs are themselves SEMITES! So you are telling us that Arabs are anti-themselves”
No, you pedantic dimwit.
“ The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to ANTI-JEWISH sentiment”
– and as such it has been commonly used ever since.
The semitic peoples as ethnicities diverged a very long time ago. In terms of language of course Hebrew and Arabic amongst others go back to the same semitic roots.
And this quote is from the very same source you quoted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
-----------------------
@ programmer craig
“I don't think it's a lost cause, Nick. I think (or hope, at least) that Muslims in general and Arabs in particular will tire of what their bigotry and violence against others has bought them.”
Well, “Inshallah”.
But only if the people on the Arab street had broad access to unbiased information !! (which they haven’t).
------------------------
@Anonymous
“ You dont even wash yourselves after you use the toilets ...u r disgusting !!!! I mean I cant imagine how do you smeel down there”
No, I don’t know what I “smeel” down there, but YOU seem to know.
For i*maginate
which major religion permits sex before marriage, and which doesn't interpret this as "grievous" - i.e. a sin?
Slaves to the goddess of fertility
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6729927.stm
I like Al Republican's comment up above where he outright refuses to disprove what one of the posters above has written.
How typical is that? The minute you place a reasoned, sound and factual argument in front of him he claims it is rubbish and refuses to discuss it. Come on Al Republican, admit it, there is atleast a grain of fact in what was posted about women's right and religious tolerance. Come on man. You can't keep lying to yourself.
-RB
The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'
16,791
Iraqi civilians killed last year by ISLAMIC Terrorists/"Freedom Fighter"
225*
Iraqi civilians killed in incidents involving Americans
Iraqis aren't
dying from war.
They are being murdered by
Islamic terrorists.
*Source: IraqBodyCount.net (includes civilians caught in crossfire who may have been killed by the terrorists, and terrorists who may have been counted as civilians)
- Jacob
Al Republican Said "I have some news flash for you: There were no suicide bombers in Eye-rack before the yanks came in."
So what you are saying is that it is America's fault that there is so much violence in Iraq?
So it is America's fault that they cannot stop the bombings?
So, in some way America is responsible for the violent actions of others....
Applying that same logic....
Can I blame the Dubai Police for all the crime that happens here. After all they should be stopping crime. They should be preventing every person from any criminal actions. Can I hold them responsible for the crimes that here?
I guess you still don't see the lack of logic in your rantings.... ah well.
- RB
RB:
Yes, I blame the Americans for the pandemonium in Iraq. The fact of the matter is that Iraq was living peacefully until you guys decided to "set things straight". Only your sinister ignorance will keep you from admiting this fact. As Programmer Craig keeps stating, you Americans think there is something wrong with the ENTIRE World ALL the time and you are God's Angels to go in and set things right. Au contraire, you only mess things up more! As the Qur'an says about people like you:
"And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers." (Qur'an 2:11)
Do you forget how people were warning you idiots of opening up a can of worms by going into Iraq? Yes, Sir, it is your damn fault that Iraq, which was living in peace, is now hell on Earth. I can't even say people like you are ignorant because you bloody well know that you guys went in there and created a situation. You start the fire and then cry foul!
As for your comment, "...Come on Al Republican, admit it, there is atleast a grain of fact in what was posted about women's right and religious tolerance." A grain of fact? I suppose it is the proverbial elephant in the room that we Muslims just cant see. You see clowns like you believe all the shit your media feeds you. There is not an iota of truth in any of those statements and I refuse to waste my own time trying to "clear" misconceptions. Since when were you looking to find out the real deal? You guys are adamant, arrogant and ignorant at the same time. So why bother when you are unwilling to hear?
You yourself in the same sentence state how you believe those statements as facts. So why do you want me to "enlighten" you? Laughable! Believe what you want, Sir, it doesn't make a damn difference to our existence :)
I was wondering where the smell was coming from and then I realised as per usual it was Al REP spouting his usual rubbish in here with all the flourish of a headless chicken.
Quote
"Iraq was living peacefully until you guys decided to set things straight"
Unquote
what about the gassing and killing of hundreds of thousands of kurds?
what about the systematic and brutal repression of the Shias?
or aren't they "people" according to your warped interpretations??
I cant imagine how do you smeel down there
Can't you? How do you "smeel" down there?
Anonymous @ 12 June, 2007 16:17
I hope you didn't forget too soon that Saddam gassed the Kurdish rebellion with the help of America? Or did you even know this fact? Donald Rumsfeld himself delivered those chemical weapons in the '80s. Search on youtube and you just might find videos of him kissing and hugging Saddam Hussain and delivering those weapons.
If you are wondering why America wanted to gas the Kurds, well at the time Saddam was fighting the Khumayni-led Iran and the kurdish rebellion was sure to weaken Iraq and hence make it easier for Iran to deal American interest a major blow. It's odd how you idiots never question WHERE those chemical weapons came from. Why don't you bloody bigots ever use your brains??? And then you talk as if you guys are so smart.
And you call the war on Iraq a solution??? OK, so let's just believe in all the trash that you believe in for arguments sake. Is this your solution?? Things are so bad now that Kurds are killing Kurds!! 700,000+ people dead, man. Don't forget to count your own dead.
Saddam Hussein was not a saint, granted, but it did not mean you should go in there and try to fix him and Iraq's problems by force. Nothing has been fixed; it has only gotten worse. Whether you can admit it or not, Saddam iron rule at least didn't see problems as we see them today. Guess what, during Saddam's rule people never had to face water and power outages even with crippling US-led sanctions for over a decade.
What have you given to the Iraqis?? More misery! Talk to them and you will realize how much they hate you.
Al Republican,
Wow, you really care about your fellow muslims in Iraq there.
The death ans suffering they are going through.
Those damn americans sure are blowing them up in the markets and schools. Totally not the fault of the terrorist who runs in there and squeezes the button and wipes out his fellow muslims.
Since you care so much about your fellow muslims shouldnt you be trying to get both sides to stop blowing up each other.
Shouldnt we be trying to get them to resolve their differences through dialogue and not through violence.
Isn't Islam the religion of peace??
-RB
Hey Al Republican,
Sura (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Sura 2:282 - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court.
Sura (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."
Sura (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."
Can't be more in your face than that.
Wow. Exciting discussion.
Poor girl, whatever her sin. It wasn't even a threesome. Just a love triangle with a twist.
I guess the following links will clear many misconecptions about Islam:
4 witnesses myth:
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2006/does-islam-require-four-witnesses-for-rape/
Women who is raped is not punished:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015456&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE
Wife beating myth:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544256
womens testimony myth:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544348
No equality of men and women in Islam myth:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544308
RB-
The fact of the matter is that the suicide bombers will continue to be there in Iraq until the Americans stay in there. Yes, I want a solution to this crisis. The VERY FIRST phase of this solution is that the Americans need to GET OUT. If that won't happen, don't expect anything to change.
Anonymous @ 13 June, 2007 00:31
OK, so you pasted 3 verses from the Qur'an and one you paraphrased to what suits your propoganda (2:282).
The very last 2 verses you quote, PLEASE READ THEM CAREFULLY! Those verses are actually talking about THE PROTECTION OF WOMEN AGAINST SLANDER!
Read the verses again, and I suggest you read the entire surah as well. It talks about how those who accuse women of sleeping around with others without witnesses or any proof should be FLOGGED for LYING and for the serious offence of slander against women!
This is what happens when you are completely blinded by twisted perceptions. The writing on the wall is clearly BLUE and you read "red". What a shame.
H in A says
Al Rep is just a moronic islamic denialist who just spews the same stuff the rest of them does, and uses western language to do so. And uses his half baked knowledge of his religion to manipulate arguments. Why do you guys waste so much time on him. Stick to the topics.
The trick you are all missing is, Islamic societies and govts consider their people to be undependable, untrustworthy, and likely to commit a sin at the first chance they get. Hence everything is controlled, and people are prevented from thinking for themselves, or questioning anything. Everything in private domain is also govt controlled. It is a large prison, and people who grew up in it will always defend it and know no better.
Western or other asian societies often consider their citizens in good faith, gives them freedom, and hopes they will act maturely and responsibly. Invariably, some 10% of them will sin and commit crimes, and they are punished to set the system right. And of the other 90%, most lead free and happy lives.And are intellectually more questioning.
Thus in islamic societies, 90% lead the prison lives, and the 10% who slave drive and rule them and decide for them live the free life.
Now where do you want to be, brain wahsed idiots living in intellectually controlled islamic societies, with so called no crime no sin no sex rules. Or in a free non islamic society where people are free, with some crime levels of course, but because people were given freedom to live.
Stupid debate, if you think. Bring on the brainwashers. Its easier to be stupid and spew rituals like Al Rep.
So what you are saying is Al Republican is that because the suicide bombers are pissed off with America they will blow up their own fellow muslims.
And you support them since being anti american is more important that trying to save lives.
- RB
First get your facts right Al Republican. The Sura talks about a woman who accuses someone of rape needs to have 4 MALE witnesses or else she is sentenced to adultery.
Second
How many rapes do you know which are committed in front of four other males who then go onto testify against the rapist?
HOW MANY???
anonymous @ 13 June, 2007 15:55
Stop wasting your breath. Your hogwash has been exposed. You want to teach a Muslim about the Qur'an? Why don't you become a Muslim first and then we can talk hehe.
The surah in question was REVEALED (what we call "asbaab an-nuzool" in Tafseer - I won't translate these terms for you since you think you are such a big scholar of Islam hehe) when Abdullah ibn Ubayy and a couple of other individuals accused Ayesha bint Abi Bakr (RA) of adultery. The verses were revealed in connection to this and came in defence of Ayesha bint Abi Bakr who is the Ummul Mu'mineen of Muslims (I wont translate this again for you because you are SUCH a scholar).
So stop this childish tantrum and trying to teach us what our own religion teaches us.
As for the 4 witnesses, you are MAJORLY confused about the witnesses issue (just as you are about the half witness of women). I will let you revel in your ignorance because you don't come across as someone looking for facts.
Cheers!
al republican.....
There is no point arguing with these idiots.
Just as they have exterminated continents; they want to do the same here.
They were certain when they were doing their exterminations that they were doing the write thing. They called it manifest destiny. Their crimes defy the imagination.
I dont need to remind you they were certain with their moral standing when they were doing it. Those duskies and savages deserved it.
So why bother with such people, when they say others have no culture; they themselves exterminated thousands, Hundreds of languages. Thousands of ways of life. For godamn what? I mean why?
So I advise you not to get too worked up about it. Just let them be; there is really no medicine for them.
H in A says
So you guys are still debating some stupid stuff some guy is supposed to have spewed some 1000 yrs back? And that too with guys whose only claim to fame is being able to repeat by rote some shit written by someone else? when will you guys start thinking for yourselves, and say something you guys thought up by yourself? that will be the day.
give me one month's salary and i could write something better. And maybe all you guys who want to smeel the other end will live more happily.I can promise you that much, i have more understanding and trust of humanity. 3 some? anyone?
anonymous @ 13 June, 2007 15:55
I hope you have read the links I posted earlier that answers your allegation.
H in A
You think you can produce something better than the Quran then go ahead. Allah has challenged the non-Muslims in various parts of the Quran.
"Say: "If mankind and the Jinn were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." (17:88)
"(Say (to them, O Muhammad ): "Then bring a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than these two (the Tawrah (Torah) and the Qur'an), that I may follow it, if you are truthful" (28:49)
"(Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad ) forged it (the Qur'an).'' Say: "Bring you then ten forged Surahs (chapters) like it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" (11:13),
"(And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it (i.e. the Tawrah, and the Injil), and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. Laws decreed for mankind) ـ wherein there is no doubt ـ from the Lord of all that exists.) (Or do they say: "He (Muhammad ) has forged it'' Say: "Bring then a Surah (chapter) like it, and call upon whomsoever you can besides Allah, if you are truthful!''). (10:37-38)
FYI, this challenge is still open for more than 1400 years now. If you desire to take it up, go ahead. Also remember you can never will never produce something even close to the quran:
"But if you do it not, and you can never do it - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones - which is prepared for those who reject Faith" (2:24)
al republican.....
There is no point arguing with these idiots.
Just as they have exterminated continents; they want to do the same here.
------------------------------------
thants nothing but the truth.Islam is a sick and evil religion.the present day world terror and major problems are because of islam and its out dated,voilent ideas.
by the way i am not from west.
al republican.....
There is no point arguing with these idiots
-------------------------
if you have guts give point wise clarifications otherwise shut the fcukand get lost some where in the desert you moran.
Al Republican's favourite phrase:
"hehe"
This is an essential cap to a winning argument, right? Hehe.
Such as:
"Since you consider yourself such a scholar, I won't bother to explain it to you."
Translation:
"My position on the matter is indefensible and I hate to admit it."
By the way, which Muslim country was specifically carved out in order to create a country for Muslims? If such a country exists, it should be considered a model for all Muslim nations and held up as a sublime example of all that is right in character and governance to all other nations. In future discussions on the subject of Muslim nations, it should be referred to as the example. What say?
"Say: "If mankind and the Jinn were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." (17:88)
Can anyone please clarify what a Jinn is, and what it's capabilities are, and what would be the method of contacting and collaborating with such entities?
Well, it's back to the regular transmission. Now that they have dished out all their oft-repeated, nauseatingly boring, propaganda against Islam, quite clearly their intellect is drained. So now they are reverting to the usual ad hominem attacks on Muslims, Islam and Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).
It's odd that while they hate us quoting 1400 year old doctrine (that in itself has become a cliche), these clowns are following people like Socrates and Aristotle who preceded Islam by MILLINEAS. The whole edifice of present day democracy rests on those Roman principles all those years ago. Hypocritical as usual.
And to top it all off, they just CANT get enough of bad-mouthing the Messenger of Allah (SAW). I guess it inflates their ego to do so. Shows the level of their frustration. This frustration comes from the fact that these idiots have abandoned their own religions and have role models such as Elton John, Beckham et al whom they will forget tomorrow. They change their role models and icons more than they would their own underwear.
So let's forgive them if they cannot understand and feel frustrated how and why Muhammad ibn Abdullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) is still respected and revered by us.
How can slumberous souls in this world grasp his reality
Distracted as they are by the strength of their dreams? (Qaseeda Burdah)
Asian Expat:
What a ridiculous point you make.
The book says it is the the best book in the world and that none better can be written. Sounds like one of those rappers who sing that their songs are the best in the world. ha ha ha.
There are a million books better. Any book that doesn't call for treating others/non-believers/kafirs as lesser people is better than your holy book. Any book that doesn't call for disciplining women is a better book. Any book that doesn't call for killing people just cos you didnt get your way is a better book. Any book that calls for peace and love and harmony is a better book.
And Al Republican, I was/still am a muslim. I wish I could leave, but apostacy is punishable by death and all the while I thought there was no compulsion in Islam.
- RB (Rizwan Bhatti)
Bhatti saheb-
Well perhaps your rap can fetch you some kind of audience and you can be a messenger of your own cult? Try it, Sir. At least Tupac (I hope I got his name correct) tried.
Your confusion is manifest by the fact that you think the Qur'an calls for killing of kuffaar, hehe (victory?). Unfortunately, over a billion people who read the Qur'an don't seem to be deriving this meaning that you are parroting here.
And what is stopping you from leaving Islam? You leave no doubt about your apostasy and the way you act tough here, why don't you be a man and STAND up for what you believe in? If some Muslim will kill you, let him. After all, Muslims are idiots, right? Why can't you be brave enough to die for what you believe in? Renounce Islam and come out in the open. Why are you scared? Or are your beliefs and ethics not worth dying for? Pathetic.
On the other hand we have Muslims who are being persecuted mercilessly for their faith. Very unlike you, they are STANDING their ground and fighting for what they believe in. That takes courage and conviction, Sir. Quite contrary to your beliefs, it is the Muslims who are being killed for being Muslims. So what's all this hue and cry? Dare I say, you support the massacre of Muslims for being Muslims (your comments don't leave a shadow of doubt). So I already know what your stupid rap songs will be about (kill da Mozlems :P). Good luck with your rapping, MC Bhatti Tatti.
Al Republican,
Your idea of an argument is to insult the other person and to twist their statements.
I never said that Islam says kill the Kafir (even though this seems to be done on a regular basis). But it is the intolerance and discrimination against others. Why is it that if a Kafir commits a crime against muslim the sentence is much higher than if a muslim commits the same crime against a kafir.
Why is it that the Kafir is made to live as Dhimmi in a muslim land but a muslim is still supposed to be treated better in a Kafir's land.
Why is it that women's testimony is half of that as a man? Why is a woman forced to cover herself, If a woman's body tempts men to evil shouldn't we men be covering out eyes instead?? Isn't it our fault if we look at a woman in a sexual/bad light?
You somehow managed to twist the rap analogy. If you knew anything about rap you would know that a rapper talks about how great he is (with no evidence whatsover other than him telling us how great he is). That sounds familiar? Guess which book claims to be the gretest and which person claims to be the greatest without any evidence whatsover.
Onto Apostacy.
I was prevented from changing my religion. I faced the courts and was threatened. I knew if I pursued it, my death would be inevitable. You seem to think I am a coward. So be it. I know I am not one of the evil people and that is enough. But somehow you seem to miss the point that if Islam claims that there is no compulsion in religion, how can it say that apostacy is punishable by death (you want me to quote the sura?)
And where are muslims being persecuted? Please name the places.
Don't muslims have more rights in non-muslim countries than non-muslims have in muslim countries? UAE the most liberal of the muslim countries does not allow blatant forms of other religion. But in a non-muslim country, muslims are allowed to do whatever they please and some of these countries even bend over backwards to appease muslims.
But I guess you think all non-muslims should be bending to muslims.
Islam calls for the whole world to be Muslim. Who are the imperialists??
You somehow seem to believe that a muslim in the west has a legitimate greivance because his religion is not given special treatment. But at the same time muslims will treat others like shit in their own countries.
Who is trying to attack your muslim countries? What is the mess in Lebanon right now? Who caused that? America or Israel? How come there is no outcry from the muslim world now?
Who is responsible for the mess in pakistan? Why is Saudi Arabia hell on earth? Why is the main country of your religion also the most evil and hypocritical of the lot?
You can point fingers at Israel all you want. But the fact of the matter is the Jews were there in Jerusalem before the muslims (and the crusades only happened because the muslims invaded jerusalem and started killing christian pilgrims). I guess you will accuse me of being a zionist but you my friend are as bad as the Bin Ladens. Now we have 50 years of violence in a land that we should be looking to share and nurture.
Shouldnt we be trying to live in peace instead of destroying innocents?
Look at India. That country was torn apart. Over a million people died in 1947. Muslims didnt want to live with others and wanted a country of their own. Now they want other parts of India for themselves. And look at Pakistan. A land of lawlessness, honour killings, and pure evil. I feel shame.
And you call this a struggle for freedom.
You like to spout out rubbish about "religion of peace" when the truth is islam has spread through conquests.
All you need to do is critically and logically (by the way, believing something a book says without any proof is not logic) assess your belief system. And you will see for yourself.
We should be working towards peace not following archaic and twisted belief systems that were recited by selfish warlords who were looking to justify their actions.
Free your mind my friend. Think for yoruself.
Yours,
RB
" And look at Pakistan. A land of lawlessness, honour killings, and pure evil."
Well, what about India? Shall we call it a land of female infanticides, untouchables and marriages to dogs.
All 3 of the above exist in India, so how is it better than Pakistan?
India's per capita income & standard of living is both lower than than of Pakistan
I'm not sure which I find more annoying about Al Republican:
His obstinacy or his prolific johnsonian vocabulary.
How about a show of hands?
I'm going with the vocabulary.
RB..............
I would go out on a limb here, and say you are just a bullshitter, and probably a bored housewife with internet connection.
Your delusions of you facing the courts are just that, fantasies you are currently cooking up on your head. Just like that other man you are thinking when you make love to your husband.
You simply went to the internet, copy pasted your dhimmi information and now suddenly you are an expert to make passing judgement on a motley of unrelated issues to make your point.
Where are muslims persecuted? Hmmmm
let me think, thats a really tough question you know, I mean really tough dear mrs ignoramus. Lets start with Palestine. Britain in her infinite wisdom decided to give Palestine to the jews, just after she herself came out of a war of liberation with the Germans.
The palestinian themselves have been living in concentration camps for 60 years now. In all that time israel has recieved immeasurrable support from western nations. They hypocracy is too big to bridge on this one, especially as its happening now in a so called "liberal" western era.
Me thinks its just the same wolf in a sheeps clothing. These same western nations have exterminated continents, and will have no problem doing the same here in the name of democracy, women's rights, and the right to bugger your friend. ofcourse in every era there are the pre requisite issues to justify the means, and these rights are just the updated red herrings for the current campaigns.
I could go on and on, to fill a book, but you aint worth it. I am only bothering to andswer cause others gave you the time of day.
Best of luck with your new religion, or no religion or whatever it is you want to do with your life.
But just remember to come out of your fantasies now and then to lead your life properly.
Bhatti saheb, let me make it short and sweet:
Dhimmis - Had you just known the ACTUAL meaning of this word you would have saved yourself the embarrassment. Why do you forget that Muslims in an Islamic State (in fact, even without one) are OBLIGATED to pay Zakat? Zakat is a compulsory tax for Muslims and jizya for dhimmi. Try finding out what it means versus "minority". You sound Pakistani or Indian so you might know the urdu term "zimmedari". That word roots from "dhimmi" and means the same too. Children are DHIMMI of parents, too. And are you also telling us there are no taxes elsewhere??
Woman's witness - No, Sir, it is NOT half of a man. You are terribly confused here. Since you dont want anything to do with Islam, why even bother explaining?
Murtad - It sounds like you are in a Muslim country. I have no way of verifying your story, but I frankly don't care. Here is an idea: Go to the American embassy (or any country of your preference), apply for asylum, get the hell out, and live freely in your preferred lifestyle. You surely won't be missed.
Peace.
RB, I forgot to mention a quote from a book by Bernard Lewis about dhimmis rights in Islamic states of past:
"... (it) was very much easier than that of non-Christians or even of heretical Christians in medieval Europe... For example, dhimmis rarely faced martyrdom or exile, or forced compulsion to change their religion, and with certain exceptions they were free in their choice of residence and profession."
And finally, 100 comments!
Why? Because some doofuses think a 3some is not as hilarious as the stats of the UK having the highest number of teenage pregnancies...probably out of wedlock!
Why #2 jus' another reason to slag off Islam. That's what this whole blog is about, really. I mean look at all the posts and the comments that follow. Isn't that what this blog is about? Am I wrong?
Al Repub, hats off to you for the civilised manner in which you debate and put your points accross - not only that, but your "patience" in communication with all kinds of schools of thought! That requires great skill! Your approach is a reflection of your belief system - many could learn from you, I think. Love the vocab too...how eloquent! =)
Anons 13:05 / 09:02 hhaha ;)
I would be interested if Al Republican could finally clear up the apparent confusion about the value of a woman's testimony under sharia - every time someone raises the subject AR tells then that they don't undestand and it's not worth explaining - so please AR, in simple English, is a woman's testimony equal to that of a man under Islamic law?
Q1. Is a woman's testimony equal to a man's?
a) Yes ( )
b) No ( ) (please tick)
Q2. What is the Quranic prescription for dealing with an apostate (if he refuses to change his views)?
a) Leave him be. ( )
b) Kill him ( ) (please tick)
Q3. Is there compulsion in religion?
a) Yes ( )
b) None whatsoever ( )
c) Only when it comes to paying Zakat ( )
d) Only when it comes to terminating apostates ( )
e) Only when it comes to convincing intended apostates of the error of their ways ( )
f) Only when it comes to non-Muslims worshipping freely and openly or propagating their religions ( ) (please tick)
Q4. Do jinns exist?
a) Yes ( )
b) No ( ) (please tick)
Q5. What is the primary activity of jinns?
...................................................................
...................................................................
...................................................................
...................................................................
...................................................................
Thanks.
Q6. Is this an acceptable method of dealing with verbal diahorrea?
a) Yes ( )
b) No ( )
@ Nick
“ You dont even wash yourselves after you use the toilets ...u r disgusting !!!! I mean I cant imagine how do you smeel down there”
I don’t know what I “smeel” down there, but YOU seem to know...
11 June, 2007 17:47
Nick
Its not your fault; it is medical/scientific fact. You have got used to your odour thus immune to it.
Come on boys, let's not talk odour, let's talk history ;)
despite stupid comments from nick etc i'm still waiting for an answer from al republican regarding the value of a woman's testimony, re. my earlier post
Al-Republican and i*maginate,
When you are done licking each others' ar**s, take time to read this news:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2104504,00.html
Oh BTW, your "brothers" have already looted your demi-god's home and are busy killing your other "brothers"! Gosh, and they want to rule "their own" land!!! Jeez!!!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20070616/twl-arafat-villa-looted-as-gaza-turmoil-3fd0ae9.html
You know what, with all your pseudo righteousnesses and unbelievably shameless hypocrisy, guess we'll have the last laugh after all! Of course, no surprise there huh??!!
someone earlier asked this question
"By the way, which Muslim country was specifically carved out in order to create a country for Muslims? If such a country exists, it should be considered a model for all Muslim nations and held up as a sublime example of all that is right in character and governance to all other nations. In future discussions on the subject of Muslim nations, it should be referred to as the example. What say?"
ladies and gentlemen... I give you
PAKISTAN
* applause* applause * applause*
Inexplicble silence from Al-Diahorrea Specialist.
Meanwhile:
"i*maginate said...
Come on boys, let's not talk odour, let's talk history ;)"
History is constantly called upon in defence of the odour of the present.
Wow, I come to this blog after 24 hours and I am already being thought of having backed out. I guess I dont have the right to be busy!
To Anonymous (who wants to know about the 2 female witnesses issue):
Firstly, I choose to reply to you because you come across as sincere in your request. I may be entirely wrong, but I will oblige as you quite literally demand these answers.
Please do read verse 2:282 in its entirety before reading this response. The verse is pretty lengthy and talks about the chalking of financial contracts.
Let me first state that this is the ONLY case where 2 women are required as witnesses in place of one man. This EXCEPTION is not based upon the status of women in any way, but rather to take away any possiblity of error or bias in the witness of financial contracts. Qur'anic exegetes have explained this in 2 ways: (1) to guard against the real possibility that one female witness may marry the other male witness; (2) Biological reasons of short-term memory loss in women during their menses. For the second explanation I would give you a link to a medical source if you are interested, but let me just stick to the first one as that is where the crux of the matter lies.
I hope this much is clear that that the 2 women witnesses is EXCLUSIVELY for financial contracts. Let me give you 2 examples where 1 woman's witness is held ABOVE the witnesses of 1 or more men:
1- In the case of adultery , a wife's witness SUPERCEDES that of the husband (you can refer to the Quran Surah number 24 verses 6-10 and also Surah 65 verse 2).
2- In the case of foster children (in Islamic law, infants less than the age of 2 who are breast-fed by another woman cannot marry the biological children of their foster mother), a woman's witness is equal to 2 MEN'S WITNESS.
There are many other examples, but you can clearly see that this is not an issue of "inferiority" of women under the Sharee'ah. Rather it is about the modalities of specific cases taking due consideration of the nuances of those cases. Respectively, women and men are given more weight in their witnesses as per the case.
Let me also tell you here that in ALL other cases a woman's witness is equal to a man's witness. Pure and simple. This is the sharee'ah and I have showed you examples of exceptions above. Please read 2:282 and you will know that this injunction is purely for financial contracts. Anti-Islam elements very conveniently never paste the entire verse, which takes the statement out of context. They will also never paste you verses (whose references I have given above) where a woman's witness is stronger than that of men.
Finally, someone (non-Muslim) commented here that if you 4 male witnesses are needed then it can be inferred that 8 women will suffice. Clearly, this is a fallacy! This confusion is borne out of the misunderstanding people have with verse 2:282 where an exception is taken out of context to mean that 2 women = 1 man ALWAYS.
I hope this will clear the air a bit. Mushyrock, I am pretty sure you are not going to observe "inexplicable silence" now that you have the explanation.
Sigh, people will still always follow their idiosyncrasies and the bash-Islam brigade will live on...
I want to comment on the smeel down there episode.
I wholeheartedly agree on this issue. This is simply a muslim or non muslim thing.
If you only use tissue, then you probably smell of rotten fish. Nop doubt about it. And this applies especially to blokes. I mean imagine a hairy ass, tissue does not even begin to clean.
Cammon guys, I know you hate everything to do with this place, culture, religion, roads, etc, etc (even though no one forced you to come here).
But if I was you, the one thing I will take from this place is to clean your ass with water. I promise you its worth it.
But if I was you, the one thing I will take from this place is to clean your ass with water. I promise you its worth it.
I recommend both. Water pressure alone won't clean. Use tissue, then some water, then finish up with tissue.
Best of all finish up with a bidet: warm/hot water, and some nice soap. Something with antibacterial tea-tree oil in is nice.
But to be honest in the heat and humidity here people's bodies start to stink no matter how much they wash, and whether they have been to the lavatory or not. One simply has to shower much more often.
Ahemm...
Here's a better idea... you can wash after shitting by reaching with your hand at the dirty area while applying water to it...clean it all off with your fingers while applying water over it... which i think ppl would be doing in the shower anyway...Once done... wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water. Ta da!
Clean as a whistle... ahemmm...
Al Repbulican,
You keep lying and lying. The extent of your lies is astounding.
You claim zakat and jizya are the same, trying to fool the people who are unaware of islam.
Zakat is the practice of giving a small perentage of your salary (about 5%) to charity.
Jizya is the tax imposed by islam on all dhimmis/non-believers living in a muslim country. The reason for this tax is protection. But if Islam is the religion of peace why do non-believers need protection?
I guess you were just practicing Taqqiyya (where it is ok to lie as long as the religion or prophet's honour is upheld). You want me to quote the suras as well?
AND
to the person who compared India's infanticide and dog marriages to Pakistan's problems - the difference is that India's government does not condone of such practices but Pakistan's government takes part in condeming people for apostacy and also upholding honour killings.
-RB
Hi guys,
Little late to the party.
One comment shocked me.
Al Republican's comment. Where he pretty much told RB to convert and face the death penalty. Instead of condeming people who believe in compulsion in religion, Al republican goes right ahead and tells RB to leave islam and face the death penalty.
How twisted is that?
This is supposed to be "peaceful", i guess.
So Al republican, your very words show that you are not peaceful but a hypocritical, evil human just like your role model.
To the Moron whose only response to muslims being persecuted was:
June 15, 2007 -- ISRAEL'S disengagement from Gaza, completed 22 months ago, has succeeded.
It was a demonstration project of a sort - an experiment in Palestinian self-rule. If the management of Gaza had gone well, there would have been a Palestinian state within three years, tops.
OK, now speak these three words to yourself: a Palestinian state.
Finished? Good. So are the words. They won't be coming out of anybody's mouth again for a very, very long time - at least not in any meaningful way.
Someone asked Benjamin Franklin what America got out of the Constitutional Convention of 1787. His reply: "A republic - if you can keep it."
So it was with Gaza in August 2005. The Palestinians got a "homeland, if you can keep it."
What they got instead was hell on earth.
What they got was two brutally murderous gangs, Fatah and Hamas, competing for power by throwing people off the roofs of buildings and slaughtering rivals in front of their wives and children.
What they got was Tony Soprano (Fatah) vs. Phil Leotardo (Hamas). Only this time, Tony got his head smashed in by the SUV.
This isn't a civil war - it's a gang war. And thousands of Palestinian bystanders are going to get shot while these two gangs go to the mattresses.
Ah, the joys of self-rule.
Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister who conceived the disengagement plan, had a brilliant insight: Why not let them have it? They want it? It's theirs.
After all, over the course of Israel's 38 years of occupation, fewer than 10,000 Jews actually sought to live in Gaza - and their settlements required tens of thousands of other Israelis to risk their lives protecting them.
The Palestinians spent decades professing their detestation of Israeli occupation and demanding self-rule . . . so Israel gave them their heart's desire.
Gaza is Judenrein - emptied of all Jews, just as Hitler dreamed Germany would be. No Jews live in Gaza. No Jews patrol Gaza. It's Jew-Free-by-the-Sea, with a charming Mediterranean coast worth billions of dollars in tourism and trade.
So what's the problem?
The problem is that the Jews weren't the problem.
The problem is that the Palestinians are the problem: They are drenched in an ideology of blood and murder and suicide.
A new nation must be brought into being, nurtured and built. But Palestinian political culture is a culture of destruction.
And a culture of destruction is, inevitably, a culture of self-destruction.
So: Bye-bye, Palestinian state. See you in a few decades, when Palestinians learn how to do something other than destroy others and themselves.
So the (admittedly) short-lived silence is broken. And Mushyrock's brave attempt to stem the diahorrea with simple tick marks fails again. Yes or no? (Please tick).
Meanwhile we trust Al is preparing her lengthy exegeses in response to the other questions in the list, since tick marks wont suffice.
P.S. Why do people in here insist on referring to a person without balls as a 'he'?
As for you, anonymous:
Hamas and Fatah at each other's throats, eh? Palestinians slaughtering their own brothers, eh? You conveniently left out whose fault it is.....America and her illegitimate child, Israel. How adre you, Bush?
RB-
Your antics don't surprise me. You are a drowning man clutching at straws to save yourself from drowning. I don't understand why you need to have guilt trips? Quite clearly you aren't happy with Islam. So why are you moaning and whining? Convert and get the hell out of it.
Perhaps you didn't know that Zakat is meant ONLY for muslims. Meaning that Zakat alms can onlybe distributed to poor Muslims. It is to be collected by the state and is a mechanism to ensure the well-being and PROTECTION of the less fortunate Muslims. Your confusion is getting the better of you. As a minority in any part of the "Free" World, you are guaranteed right and PROTECTION under the constitution. It's the same principle at play here.
Protection in this context doesn't mean that people are out there to kill others! It quite simply means the PROTECTION OF RIGHTS by a state for it's minority.
The Islamic system came up with an effective system that the West has only now embraced. Can you pray tell us what "asylum" is? Why are you crying about non-Muslims being taxed in an Islamic state?? Aren't muslims being taxed in America or UK? Do you ever see us crying about that?
And now you stoop lower and bring up "taqiyyah". For your kind information, Taqiyyah has no place in Sunni Islam. Zero, zip, zilch. You may be confusing Taqiyyah with "Rukhsah" though. That is when a Muslim lies about his faith in order to PROTECT his/her own life when facing a death situation. For example, if someone sticks a gun to a Muslim's head and asks him to renounce Islam, he has the option of "rukhsah" (to renounce the faith by tongue) to save his life.
Even in Taqiyyah (a practice the shi'ites follow) they will tell you that Taqiyyah is only done in life and death situations. I fail to understand how SD's blogs are a life and death situation? You are a sad joker, Sir!
I also find it amusing that now that answers are coming up, you have no contingency plan, but to dispel all the evidences as false. Again, your idiosyncrasies are getting the better of you. You loss, Bhatti saheb.
Al Republican,
What vile shit you spew.
So according to you, Zakat is a tax collected from well off/middle class mulsims to help out ONLY other poor muslims (and here I thought Islam does not discriminate against others).
And Jizya is a tax on non-muslims to protect their own Rights? How do you protect rights by taxing someone? Do you use the tax/jizya money to put up posters and stickers saying rights are protected?
And please don't compare taxation in the west (which is used to pay for the infrastructure and public services) to the discrimination practiced by islamic societies.
And also - what you are saying is that your religion says its ok to lie. You can throw your morals and principals aside. Nice.
-RB
RB-
You are a little child and frankly you are being really silly now. I never expected your simplistic mind to grasp any of this anyway, but really you take it to another level of sublime incompetence!
In any case, I have said what I had to say. I am not interested in your silly games. Rant on...
RB, aren't you also guilty of "taqiyyah"? You say you are not a Muslim (actually, I am confused because you said "I am/was a Muslim"???) but you are concealing your own faith and are posing as someone you are not. Some people call that "hypocrisy". You also said that you are doing it out of fear of being put to death... so you have cast your "principals" and morals aside, too. Nice.
"Aren't muslims being taxed in America or UK? Do you ever see us crying about that?"
They are being taxed for being Muslims? Extra taxes for certain religions? Or do they all pay the same? Or are you trying to say that Muslim citizens should not be taxed in the UK and US, even if other citizens of the same country have to pay taxes?
You know, Al, I've heard people say on here that you frequently tend to confuse the issue. Your reply to that was that they get confused easily. Well, well.
I realise you're getting tired of this back and forth question/answer stuff, so I certainly won't push you. Let's just say the other questions (the yes/no ones) remain unanswered, and leave it at that.
Yes, I am guilty of "Taqqiyah".
While I don't practice the religion, I cannot change my name or information on my passport for fear of death.
I totally agree that I should be standing up for what I believe in. But, staying alive is a bigger motivator.
I know for a fact that there are many others like me who cannot make a choice about their own religion and all the while we have to listen to "No compulsion in Islam" PR BS being spouted. And fact is nothing further from the truth.
Al Republican,
nice, run away now. The minute you are cornered you accuse the other of silliness and run away. I guess you have run out of lies.
BTW, I would like to come by your house and collect some money. You know, for your own protection.
You know who else collects protection money - organised crime.
-RB
RB-
Sure, I am cornered and you have exposed me for the farce I am. Whatever rocks your boat, Johnny.
Are you sure you want to come to my doorstep to collect money? I might just greet you with a bullet right between your eyes, hehe.
I will also take it that you are new on this blog because quite clearly you have missed how every Muslim in here has always maintained that "no compulsion in religion" (la ikraha fid-deen) is meant for NON-MUSLIMS ONLY.
For the Muslims, the injunction is "udhkulu fis-silmi kaaffaah" (Enter Islam Completely). So there are no half-measures as you like to practice. So this whole "BS PR" thing is part of your delusional wet-dream of what Islam is all about. No one ever claimed as such other than what you are probably hearing from the media. It just goes to show how confused you are.
I have to hand it to you though, as much as I want to avoid a numbskull like you, you keep drawing me in with your puerile crap.
Sigh, I really have to learn to avoid fools like you.
H in A says
Sigh...Al Rep. You need to be out of this discussion and read it, to see what a pathetic apology for intelligence you are yourself. Spew stuff written by some idiots and give interpretations like it takes some serious work. and the absolute blind belief that everything there is the truth. pitiable. man...rest of the world has moved on. people like you will keep yourself and your people in the dark era by mixing sophisticated language with mumbo jumbo.. and because you are so insular and brainwashed,and deal only in your society, you will think that you are the correct ones.they may think you are great, to the whole world, you are pathetic. talk about frogs in a well...
"The West is accusing Muslims of extremism and terrorism. If someone exploded a bomb on his body he would be right to do so unless the British Government apologises and withdraws the 'Sir' title of Salman Rushdie"
AL Republican please justify comment.....
Anon at 18 June, 2007 02:08
Do you have a blog? Your comments are spot on. Al Republican. I think you have managed to prove that much of what is written in the Koran is open to interpretation.
An Equally Confused Muslim
Al Republican. In previous posts u have justified 'terrorism'I see your answer to the woes of the Arab world is the old 'divide and rule' excuse. I recall Margaret Thatcher calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Yes terrorism is a label politicians chose to assign to crimes when it suits them- much in the same way religious fanatics (not just muslim) chose to ordain murder as a deadly sin but then chose to define the context for their convenience. If I were to chose to kill my Jewish neigbour- in most cases it would be a crime and a sin. But of course if I, as a Muslim, chose to do this to symbolise a struggle, according to your logic it would be freedom fighting and maybe even met with a heavenly reward. Two rights don't make a wrong and death and destruction wreaked by one side does not make retaliation righteous.
Instead blaming others for their woes, the Islamic world first needs to get its own house in order. Until then others will continue to take advantage of this disunity for their own self interest. No Empire in the world- Roman, British, Ottoman etc has sacrificed its own interests for others. What makes you think things will change
Well, I havent posted in a long time, but here goes.
1) Someone asked in which religion Adultery was not a crime. Well, its not in mine. I'm an athiest/humanist and I believe in the right of everyone to do as they please as long as it doesnt harm anyone else.
2) Muslims did commit genocide during the early years when they conquered all of North Africa and the Gulf. Even in the gulf, people were killed if they didnt convert to islam.
3) India is doing a helluva lot better than Pakistan in almost every way.
4) Rummie may have given Saddam weapons, but Saddam used them. I can give a man a gun, but its his fault if he uses it. And besides, if you didnt give them anything they'd do what Ahmadinejad is doing now anyway, making his own. I'm sure that Iran is going to soon run out of oil and thats why they desperately need nuclear power.
5) If a tree falls in the forest and no one was around, was it America's fault..? You cant blame everything on the west. "Boo hoo, america screwed us". Even if left alone (like Palestine is now), the people in the countries go to war against each other, because thats the only thing they know to do. If they cant fight against a common "enemy" they fight amongst themselves. Fatah and Hamas, Sunnis and Shia in Iraq - whatever.
6) Is it acceptable to people when muslims kill other muslims..? If Saddam killed a hundred thousand shia that was ok, but if america puts a stop to it, thats bad. If people are beheaded in Saudi, thats ok, but if you complain that its wrong, youre bad. Besides the west has the death penalty too (but you have people protesting against it, and human rights groups trying to get it abolished - you dont really see that in Saudi).
7) Islamic nations tend to NEED dictatorship or rule with an iron grip (look at any islamic country and you'll see). If this iron fist does not exist, people tend to go to bits very easily.
8) Hypocrisy seems to be the order of the day. If a muslim wants to implement sharia law in the UK, thats something to be supported. But if you try to get any other legal system (or rights system) for non muslims in their country, "if you dont like it leave"
9) Prostitution and immoral activity may occur worldwide, but as long as it doesnt hurt anyone, this isnt really a crime. It only is because some dude 1400 years (or 2000 years if youre talking christianity - or longer if youre talking judaism or hinduism) said so. People are aware of the risks of disease etc from engaging in these activities. However, they are free to disregard the warnings. Besides, people smoke and drive cars and people get lung cancer and have accidents, no one's calling for a ban on these activities.
10) The "freedom to choose" as outlined in (9) is anathema to (7), the need for "RULE", as such any activity that permits "freedom of choice" is therefore "immoral" in the countries outlined in (7)
Well, thats my $.02
Al republican,
How stupid is that comment of yours? There is no compulsion ins religion only for non-muslims.
So what you are saying is, there is compulsion in Islam. So therefore Islam is intolerant. It does not respect the views and rights of a human being to choose.
I rest my case.
p.s: thanks for clarifying what you people are all about with that bullet between my eyes comment. Nice. I guess that is what you have learnt from your religion of peace.
-RB
To Anon in reply no. 131,
Just saying India is doing better than Pakistan means squat. Pakistan's poor dont suffer as much as India's poor and they have a higher standard of living (less people on streets, and more food for people)
On the other hand, India has attracted more foreign investments and has developed a lot in last 10 years.
At the end of the day, both are similar countries, but neither of them are doing much better than the other
Anon at 20 June, 2007 13:11
What you don't understand is that Arab's in general do not wish to take responsibility for themselves. It easier to blame the 'west'or a zionist conspiracy for the civil unrest in Palestine. Ask an Arab friend to give you the back translation for the arabic expression 'I missed the train' and you'll see what I mean.
A Bad Muslim
@ Anon Bad Muslim, 20 June 18:47
"It easier to blame the 'west'or a zionist conspiracy for the civil unrest in Palestine.
You said it, brother. Remember the power cut two years ago? And Salik? It was them Zionists again! One can see the pattern. I admit I know that because Ahmed our gardener told me.
But I tell you, credit where credit is due, don't bash them Phallistonians. I heard the Phalestians wanted their own country, right? And look, today they even have two countries! One by the sea, and the other even has its own Bank.
Source: www.7days.ae/phalestinions.html
Dear al-republican,
Since you are great scholar of everything under the half moon I thought you might indulge yourself with this
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
dhimmiwatch/
, and us with your wisdom.
ok, the comments have gone WAAAAY beyond the topic @ hand, but I would like to clarify:
before anything: I am a Muslim and am a female :D
No compulsion- it is incorrect when they say no compulsion only for NON-Muslims. there is no compulsion, period! If you are a Muslim and want to convert/leave Islam, well then what to say, your Iman was weak and it is better that you change, because then you are a Muslim from fear of man Not God!
That said, it is unfortunate that people don’t see so, and threaten those who want to convert and leave Islam. What is a mandate and what is practiced in real life is different and unfortunately, Islam has become a sort of play toy. People interpret the message in which-ever way and implement it however they want.
Also, KSA is NOT perfect, some things are just absurd (such as no-women drivers) and they don’t seem to realize that the more you try and restrict, the more people go bouncing of the walls PLUS my beef with them is: You (i.e KSA) are a model for Islam, the World thinks that what you do , is what Islam is. Now it is true in some cases, where they do exercise laws that are right in the Light of Islam BUT they never let the world know of the rationale behind the law. How is it then that they will get what you are doing! Also as the beacon of Islam, it is KSA’s duty to spread the right image of Islam, and to do so, they SHOULD explain their actions. Even if it means that they have to give a 5 hr lecture on it!
As for the beheading/cutting of hands etc, it IS an Islamic law. Reason for such a serious punishment- to deter others. If you are a thief, and you see that thieves that are caught have their hands cut off, you WILL think twice (or even more) before committing the crime.
As for the law: "should have four witnesses to the crime" applies ONLY to cases where people are ACCUSED of ADULTERY..and not (as stated in comments here) in cases of rape.
Reason: Well there is a bit of history attached to it. This law was specifically put in place to protect the honor of women.
As it were, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH), Ayesha, was accused of committing adultery. She was persecuted, with gossip and looks for a long time, before the rumor died down.
Now, think of this rationally please. If someone accuses you of adultery (esp if you are a women), how will you feel. people just talking bad about you, behind your back and even on your face (sorry don’t mean to be rude or demean anyone's way of living, but this would apply to societies where open relationships are looked down upon, so mostly applicable to Islamic societies)
In society, people don’t blame or hound the man (WRONG practice again!) but a woman's life is made hell!! And people just keep saying that "yea, she was involved in this, tsk tsk", like they were there..and so the story is spread and NO ONE is sure weather it happened, just word of mouth..(I have seen this happen, and its disgusting!) and the woman’s name is tainted for life, people never forget it!! so whether you be innocent or guilty, this law applies to you, where is makes it very difficult for anyone to accuse ANY woman for this grave crime.
As for the eyewitnesses for male and females, it has been mentioned before. 2 females are equal to 1 male ONLY for FINANCIAL matters, because it was considered that men were better at this particular area than women because they were the ones who ran businesses and all. Also with a risk of ruffling feathers, males have a better understanding of such matters (they are built that way, we rule in other matters :P )
p.s there was a news clipping today about a 14 yr old girl being punished for adultery (again I don’t know how they validated that) and man went scott free because “there was no conclusive evidence”…so here the ruling is ahem..questionable. If you can say that the girl committed adultery what evidence did you use and why cant it be applied to the man??? Also to point out the Islamic law wasn’t used, but then again, that is only applied when you ACCUSE someone, maybe these where caught red-handed, so essentially there should have been atleast four men present at the time of capture (all assumptions). Also the reporting should improve, because they mislead us with incomplete reporting OR wrong statements (ref to the article in gulfnews about a man hammering another to death..confused reporting!!)
Have you noticed how when Israel and Lebanon had their skirmish, there was huge outcry in the middle east.
But now when the Islamists are fighting the legitimate government of Lebanon (and multiple anti syrian politicians have been assasinated) there is no outcry. The lebanese here seem to be fine going about their business.
And Palestine is a joke. Thats what you get when you vote in a terrorist group. Live by the gun, die by the gun.
And again no outcry to try and stop the fighting.
I guess it is ok for muslims to kill muslims, but when they pick a fight with the west, it is not ok for the west to retaliate.
- RB
>>Mohamed said...less people on streets, and more food for people
LOL!!! If Pakistan is so developed and rich, what are the freakin' Pakis doing in my country??!! Perhaps to blow up our tubes, huh?!
By the way SD, I really hope you'll blog on the well deserved knighthood of the coolest bloke the literary world has seen in recent times :-)
Cotton eye Joe....
If you are so developed what are you doing in the UAE? Hahahahahaha
Cotton Eye Joe, you're so hilarious - your logic, rather!
So you're Indian, I take it.
If India is so developed and rich, what are freakin' labourers doing in the UAE?
H in A says
To anon@12:48
You guys are still caught in a bloody time capsule of about 1200 yrs. All this mumbo jumbo interpretation of rubbish written then, by unquestioning people like you who think this is the only way to live.
What was written then suited then probably ( though i dont see how) but it definitely does not suit the current world, people, or life. It is like saying a jungle bred cannibal is the best bet to run a space shuttle. Is this so difficult to see? I do not think so, most other intelligent forms of life in other countries have changed their interpretations of their books and got on with their life fine. But i guess that needs intelligence to question and think and apply. Not repeat in stupidity, and give complicated interpretations that are even more stupid. You all probably deserve what you got.
imaginate finally reveals a shade of paki colours.....cotton eye mentions tube dumbo..blown up....remember....rings a bell? london?...
and who gives a friggin if pakis are doing better than india....good for them. indians are not complaining abt that...they have other things to worry about in their own country...unlike pakis whose whole existence seems to be centred around the uncut umbilical cord with india.lol
H & A blah blah.....
So you prefer secularism, like that is perfect. What was the first nation to outlaw religion?Does communism and Stalin ring any bell, how about Mao?
You look at western societies as if they are the epitome of civilazation. In reality I dont think there has ever been a more murderous civilasation in the history of mankind. It has countless victims, most of whose stories you have not heard of as they have been exterminated. To this very day you celebrate those exterminations.
Anon,
"and who gives a friggin if pakis are doing better than india"
I don't know
Ask Cotton Eye Joe
"pakis" - In the civilised world, it's considered racist to use this term. Which world are you from? Tsk tsk
To Anon @ 21:10
The crimes committed by communist states were never done in the name of religion. They were done for political motives. Equating the crimes of a government to their beliefs would be the same as blaming islam for the gassing if kurds and the genocide of the shia by Saddam.
However, if you want to look at the crimes carried out in the name of religion, you need to look at things like the spanish inquisition, the salem witch trials, the problems in indonesia, and the conversion of Africa to islam.
Its not about Islam or Christianity. Dogmatic religion (where you force your belief on others) is wrong in any form. While one believes that their religion is right, there are a billion others who think that its wrong. Sadly, all religion seems to be preoccupied in securing a place in the "afterlife" (a place that no one really has proof of), rather than making THIS place heaven.
Sad.
to H in A:
this is Anon @ 12:48
guess, its no use trying to explain anything to people like you. You just dont want to listen, OR understand! all you want, Is to slate us into some kind of backward, stupid war-mongers..well fine..suit urself..I just thought we could have a meaning dialogue. and what do i get? BS!
THIS is why we will never get along, people are never ready to listen (happens on this side too, IF you can call these as sides)...that is also why the WEST is blamed for everything, you dont listen to us, we dont listen to you, no one knows the other ones rationale, and we end up killing each other.
IF ONLY PEOPLE WOULD SIT DOWN AND TALK AND UNDERSTAND!! bah!
Have a good day and good life ahead H in A. I wish you all the best!
And to Anonymous at 12:48
I hate to say this, but it is true. The Quran does say that a convert from islam to any other religion should be killed. What gives you the right to tell people what religion SHOULD work for them.
I know you say that "People interpret the message in which-ever way and implement it however they want.", but any religion that is open to interpretation is a failure. If God wanted to convert the world all he would have to do is SHOW UP. Trust me, there wont be one person who wouldnt convert. But I dont think that will happen, you know why..? The god of ANY religion seems to be someone that is weak (cant convert anyone, and powerless against the devil), needy (desperately NEEDS money and prayer and some sort of pat on the back), silly (why go through this charade called life if you WANT to take people to heaven, just take them already), incompetent (creates something that he loves, but is powerless to keep the thing on his side), vindictive (literally gets mad at you and threatens to burn you forever if you do something that pisses him off), completely idiotic (gives you body parts that are "unclean" or parts that he doesnt like you playing with), murderous (kills people who dont do what he says - sheesh brainwash them into doing whatever you want already, at least then theyre alive and doing what YOU want) and just plain ABSENT (has anyone really seen God..? Or do you go by something an imam, preacher or whatever said (and someone told him and someone told him and someone told him.)
Or could you believe that religion is a crock of crap and is being used to control people.
I mean, think about it. Can't GOD WRITE..? Why does he need someone to write what is wrong and what is right for him. For that matter, why need a book, just program everyone to do what you want. When you create and program a robot, do you just let it do what you want and hope that it loves you (and destroy it when it doesnt) or do you program it to do what you want..? GEEZ..!!
If God was all powerful and intelligent, why play this game..? Was he bored..? Was living forever too boring..? (Even if he was, he doesnt seem to show up now-a-days).
And as for "As for the beheading/cutting of hands etc, it IS an Islamic law. Reason for such a serious punishment- to deter others. If you are a thief, and you see that thieves that are caught have their hands cut off, you WILL think twice (or even more) before committing the crime.", this is even more absurd. What if you make a mistake..? What if someone really didnt steal..? Does God come and reattach their hands..? What gives ANYONE the right to take the life or body part of another..? Did God somehow say that one person could..?
I have a better suggestion, if someone does a crime, why dont we let God punish them..? I mean, God said it was a crime..? Why dont we just let them stand in a field and let lightning or whatever it is that God uses come and strike them. You want to know why..? He wont show up..!!
And this gem "As for the law: "should have four witnesses to the crime" applies ONLY to cases where people are ACCUSED of ADULTERY..and not (as stated in comments here) in cases of rape." is even more absurd. What if there arent 4 witnesses..? Does that mean people who are discreet and dont commit adultery at the local peep show somehow not sin..? They are not punishable..? Besides, who is it a crime against..?
You mean to say that a law was put in place (one that women in Pakistan are losing their lives over) just because some guy 1400 years ago tried to shut the town gossip up..? Every comment about the benefits of religion (ANY religion lest I be accused of islam-bashing) just makes it sound a little more ludicrous.
Think for yourself, you have a brain thats the product of 5 billion years of evolution, and you are gullible enough to fall for stories from thousands of years ago..?
@ anon 22 June, 2007 03:08,
I think of the 140+ comments and shameless throwing of dirty and confusing words in this entry (although others have claimed "eloquence" *sarcasm intended*) , your message makes the greatest sense. I share the same views as yours.
Cheers!
agnostic filipino
Gee i*maginate, going by your "intelligent" comments, I wouldn't expect you to know what a tube is!!!
To Anon @ 21 June, 2007 14:29:
What am I doing in the UAE? Err....maybe because the morons here pay me the big bucks because of my skin??!! And I'm in the mood to milk the cow :-)
I'm impressed. 150+ comments and no one has blamed the boys in blue for, er... anything.
I believe this is a new high in the Battle for Empathy and Understanding, and definitely a reason to celebrate.
Threesome, anyone?
bwahahaha cotton eye Joe.......
Yeah yeah I agree with you. Stay here and milk the cow, cows that you couldn’t milk in your advanced civilisation.
Yes and let’s be ungrateful to boot. Yes that is the true mark of an advanced civilisation, Hmmm.
They like the colour of your skin you say; I wonder what occupation is that?
Let my psycho analyse your name. Cotton eye Joe.
Cotton; cotton is white. So perhaps that is descriptive of you? Does that refer to your skin colour? I have a feeling it does. As you say they favour you because of it.
Now lets move to the second part. Eye.
Now it’s an eye, but not eyes. So where can that refer to? Aaha. The eye they might be referring to is your anus. Aha.
Now for Joe, the third part.
Joe is a common name among the nameless. For example if someone dies and the police don’t know their name, he will be called Joe.
Now most likely your occupation is in a career where you’re name or even character is not important. Basically just a person, you know basically just getting by trying to earn a living milking the cow. You know a cow, producer of the white stuff out. You milk one udder, then you go to the next, and then you go to the next udder.
So aggregating all the evidence, I can say with perhaps 95% probability that you are a rent boy. Ahhhh very good.
Is that why you are so peeved off? Are the willies here too big for you?
Cotton, sorry darling, my heartfelt apologies.
Thought people from your country refer to what you call "the tubes" THE TUBE, therefore the confusion ;)
Anonymous 22 June, 2007 19:52
Re Cotton Eye Joe,
Perhaps its a analogy for White-Ass-Noname.
Or Maybe he just liked the song.
Either way. You're a tool.
Dear Anonymous @ 22 June, 2007 19:52,
Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not the one you were hoping for! So how's the pimping going on??!!
And I'm not peeved. Remember I'm the one doing the milking!! BTW, you sound totally peeved. I'm guessing its because we decided to honour Rushdie with Knighthood :-) Too bad our govt doesn't dance to Paki tunes huh??!!
Someone tell me how kicking out unmarried people from Sharjah is "a victory for Islamic morals and principles" ?
SHARJAH — The Sharjah Municipality’s decision to relocate bachelors in accommodations in industrial areas has been welcomed by a large number of residents.
Businessman Essa Obaid Al Gharbi described the decision as real victory for Islamic morals and principles which the emirate’s citizens have grown up with and largely adhere to.
The decision is absolutely right, Qasim Al Mourshidi, chairman of the board of directors of Al Mourshidi group of companies, said.
Though there are many foreign employees hired by his contracting firms, Al Mourshidi said he was keen on accommodating his employees in places far from the residential areas.
He hoped that all the municipalities across the country follow Sharjah Municipality’s examples and take similar measures.
Dr Ahmed Moustafa Al Faioumi, however, believes that the order should be restricted to workers who live in labour compounds and camps.
“In case a person is holding a good post and has not indulged in misconduct of any sort with his neighbours and no complaint have been lodged against him, what’s wrong if he stayed in his accommodation?” he wondered.
Meanwhile, inspection campaigns are to ensure that no bachelors are staying in the city’s residential orders.
Congratulations to "Sir" Salman Rushdie (do I hear DIE in that name somewhere?) on his knighthood!
In other news, respected scholars of Islam all across Pakistan (and that of Afghanistan, India and elsewhere) have bestowed upon Usamah bin Laden the title of "As-Sayfullah" (The Sword of Allah). Congratulations to him on this honorable title, which is his due right.
Ouch! Do I see a few pissed off people out there? Hehe. What goes comes around :)
Ha ha ha.
Aren't these imams and others just a bunch of kids. I mean how childish is the you honoured someone we don't like, so we will honour someone you don't like.
No one gives a crap who you honour people. I mean we don't give a crap you honour the worlds biggest most evil terrorist so why should bestowing a title on Osama Bin Laden really bother us?
-RB
waa..Osama bin Laden has been given a 'title'??
As a Muslim I oppose both Salman Rushdie AND Osama bin Laden's 'titles'.
why'd they give Osama the title! I mean that's giving your stamp of approval on his activities! So now we are going to receive backlash as well. Thank you Scholars, you provide such a well balanced and TRUE picture of Islam *sarcastic*
"Ouch! Do I see a few pissed off people out there? Hehe. What goes comes around :)"
Sure you do. All those demonstrations, flag burning, effigy burning, chanting till they're red in the face, death threats...they certainly are pissed off, arent they? And how many! Millions upon millions, pouring into the streets....(obligatory) *sarcasm*.
Is it the season of sarcasm yet? Gosh, everyone seems to be catching this virus!
Me thinks it is definitely a case of emotional retaliation. UBL's "Islamic version" of knighthood is already evoking some emotions and the sarcasm proves it!
[Quote from RB]:
No one gives a crap who you honour people. I mean we don't give a crap you honour the worlds biggest most evil terrorist so why should bestowing a title on Osama Bin Laden really bother us?
[End of Quote]
Umm, so you were faking all this time? You really are a white rat after all! My guess is you are Richard Boucher and not Rizwan Batti!
How were the talks with Mushy and Negroponte (the infamous destabilizer of South American governments) Mr. Boucher? Are you guys planning to forge an alliance with Benazir and Musharraf in the upcoming "elections" so that your stinking plans continue unabated in our country? The least you can do is fill us up!
Btw, did you guys notice the venus and crescent thing some nights ago? That's the inspiration for our country's flag :D
Cool huh?
ROTFL!!!
Your answer to the knighthood of a man who lives by the pen is to "honour" a rat who lives by the sword!!! Typical crooked sense of justice! Nice title though - "Ass-ayfullah" :-)
Jigga Watts,
I do not consider myself part of the muslim "brotherhood" "terrorist breeders" whatever...
I am a part of them. The more rational world and not a part of you - the evil, hypocritical world.
-RB
"Me thinks it is definitely a case of emotional retaliation. UBL's "Islamic version" of knighthood is already evoking some emotions and the sarcasm proves it!"
How right you are, once again, Banana Republican! As we noted, see the numbers of sword weilding flag burners pour onto the streets!
(P.S....I don't need to tell you this, but the trick is to deftly avoid answering this by sidetracking in some other direction again. I must acknowledge your skill in that area.)
By the by...thanks for clue no. 6. The metamorphosis from Al-R to Anonymous to jiggawatts is being tracked by the RTA, and the "why do...without balls...a 'he'" was merely dropping a hint, well taken I agree. Despite the nincompoops who continue to imagine an Emirati male. Pretty juvenile, huh? Was it really necessary to throw in that flag thing at this stage? Yes, I did see the pretty juxtapositioning of Venus and the moon the other night.
Cloiseau, alias the Wankenator.
Hey you wankernator..........
Are you trying to impress people here with big words. Do you think that would bamboozle people to think you are some sort of intellectual. Grow up, fool.
wankenator-
Your nick says it all...
Btw, Banana Republican would be BR, which if laterally inverted would be RB. Thus becoming the anti-thesis to our confused, wannabe-apostate friend, Rizwan Bhatti.
I didn't get though where you were going with the "emarati male" thing? Then again, I don't know where you are going with your tirade of JiggaWatts and other anonymous people being me. I guess you miss me that much.
But, if it gives you any solace, yes I agree with one of the anonymous persons here who talked about Usamah bin Laden's knighthood. To me, he is a mujahid (what you guys like to call "holy warrior"). Not only do I think him to be Saifullah (Sword of God), but I would also call him "Asadullah" (Lion of God). This opinion I keep of him is known to all and sundry. I don't need to hide behind a mask for it. :)
And now you can wank away.
H in A says:
How typical or moronic ritualists above to get carried away and praise saif ass-edullah or whatever is new moniker is. just a few blasts here and there and he becomes the face of belief and next prophet. wait till he comes and gets you and other asses in your islamic republic with what he did in afghanistan with taliban. no music. no dance. no other religions. destroy all museums.no education for women. no stepping out without male relatives. cover yourself completely so you become a robot with no identity. brothers kill sisters if they like some guy.attack neighbouring countries and try to kill their cultures. do i need to go on more... do you know how stupid your half assdullah mail makes you look like? i think even someone as stupid as you may be a better bet than him to lead you region to betterment. not that you guys deserve it. what is wrong with you people is lack of respect for books, intelligence, knowledge and individualism. I have never in my life come across people more threatened by anyone who may break the mould through questioning. as if their faith cant stand that test. maybe in reality it cant.
When the rest of the world goes about honouring people of peace - Ghandi, King, Mandela, we have muslims honouring genocidal maniacs (Osama). (BTW - Al Republican - thanks for proving again that Islam is an inherently violent religion - by the way you people honour murderers).
And since we are giving out titles here are a few I am pushing for:
Oppressor of Evil - Bush
Defender of the weak - Ariel Sharon
Land of justice - Israel
Voice of Gabriel - The Danish Cartoonist
:-)
-RB
Well the lesser said of the maniacs who worship terrorists and pedophiles, the better! No wonder you guys are rotting away...
Al Republican,
what a sad, sad, insignificant little man you are. If only you could see it.
You hide behind your polished quasi intelectual Western vocabulary but through the cracks of it, your soul smells foul.
In this blog...you fool no one but yourself.
I pity you. I pity those many who think like you and above all, I pity the rest of us who have no choice but to share this planet with you ignorant lot.
See, that is what this whole thing of "Saifullah" was to achieve - piss you idiots off. It has worked like a charm!
I guess your "honoring" of Salman Rushdie stands exposed for the farce it was. It was not for his literary excellence (anyone who has read his works will vouch that he is a pathetic writer), rather it was to tinker with the sensitivities of Muslims.
Read Cheryl Benard's (of the RAND corporation) report on supporting and promoting idiots like Salman Rushdie and Irshad Manji and it will all make sense. Just because you guys chose to remain ignorant of political realities doesn't mean we should act numb too.
Cheers!
Hey Al Repugnant,
Read the news today? 20 people have been found beheaded in Iraq.
I wonder what these poor people did to deserve to die at the hands of fellow muslims. Is it cos Muslims are intollerant of sects within their own religion? Is it cos Americans eat pork? Is it cos the west has not converted to Islam? Or is it cos their evil religious leaders want to become the rulers of Iraq through violence?
I reckon its most probably cos these 20 people were pig eating, adulterers who professed interest in reading some Salman Rushdie.
-RB
Al Repugnant,
The world doesn't seem to take much offence at the honour and titles you give the founder of your religion. So why are your guys getting so offended that a horrible writer is getting one miserable title. I am sure your god will punish this fool for his insults.
-RB
H in A says:
To quote al republican above "Not only do I think him to be Saifullah (Sword of God), but I would also call him "Asadullah" (Lion of God). This opinion I keep of him is known to all and sundry. I don't need to hide behind a mask for it. :)"
Now dont try to get cute and say you were trying to piss people and get a reaction by saying this, and you actually did not mean it. At least be a man and stand up to what you said, it is clearly not meant in literary context, and is your opinion of the man. you are entitled to it, but at least dont give in so easily under pressure.and not everyone around are fools like those from your society, you dont fool anyone, there are intellectual equals and far betters around on the net.
and if you did mean what you said in the quote, then probably you would like your sister and mother to live like the women lived in taliban era under your hero's time. that would be your dream world, wouldnt it be.mind you, i guess they will ban internet so it is unlikely we would have your company on net for long.
H in A (Hole in Ass?):
I think I made myself very clear about UBL. He is a hero, period. That opinion of mine pisses you guys, so be it. All the more reason for me to rub it into your silly little faces.
RB, I guess you have serious issues with Allah and the Taliban. Since you are of the view that Allah does not exist, I guess you know as a matter of fact the existence of Taliban. May you run into one some day and never live to regret it, hehe.
To RB-
Did someone mention dead pigs?
With lots of love and warm wishes for many more to come...
Al-Repugnant
H in A says
Al Repub, you can call me hole in ass, i can help you with a better one, head up asshole whatever. you see, i dont reach for the bomb the moment someone critics me, because we believe in free speech, and questions, and ability to debate different points of view without feeling threatened, it is called handling issues with intellect. that would be the problem with your faith,isnt it. not being able to take any questions on why it doesnt make sense.so why not ban all questions, and kill all questioners. simple problem.simpler solution.lol
as for making you reconfirm your support for half assedullah UBL, it does not piss me off. far from it, we know people like you exist. who lionises him for his extreme view on how people should live their life, and how women should be prevented from a life and eduction of any sorts, and all men need to be taught how to live or else they sin. and of course, destroy anyone who questions. i just wanted to show you up for what you really are and what you stand for. thanks for confirming it to the rest of people who read this thread. so they do not get impressed by your fancy words.inside you are just another moron who can never think or speak for himself, only repeat by rote.
"He is a hero, period. That opinion of mine pisses you guys"
On the contrary, your opinion just proves the fact that you are shameless coward just like your "hero"! You just have to scare the shit out of your women and suppress them to feel that you are stronger than them. You have to keep them under blankets so that they don't get a chance to be with real men. When people question you, you blow them up because its easier than finding intelligent answers. You are such pussies.
So go ahead and brand all terrorist pigs as your ass-fuckullahs!! Too bad there aren't any literary geniuses in your world to honour. Oh wait a minute, isn't art haram for you talibans??!!
Nice AL Republican, Very nice.
First, your link/reference to the dead people shows off your true intolerant colours.
Second, I DON'T believe in your Allah - the evil, vindictive, egotistical, illogical, dominating entity as described by your faith. An entity who goes onto contradict and change his mind sura to sura. Does not sound too smart for someone who is supposed to be wise.
Third, thanks for the second reference to my killing. It appears that you really can't take it that someone has rejected your "wonderful" cult and is still alive. Seems to me that you cannot respond with any valid explanations to my arguments. So you mix in some death threats.
You are truly as sad and pathetic as they come.
-RB
Hey Al Republican,
How about this one?
Conversion
Is this sanctioned in your book as well? After all he is a Kafir.
- RB
Wow, RB, you are STILL ranting on about how much you hate Islam. Sigh.
So you hate Islam and everything associated with it... why are you so bitter about it?? Be happy! you are out of Islam (or so you claim). If you left behind something so messed up, you should be happy in life, but here you are sitting and whining, whining and whining.
Like a mad dog chasing its own tail.
P.S. Hahaha I liked that "you talibans" comment from cotton eye joe! "You Talibans" hahaha too good!
Al Republican,
I can't believe how much you hate non-muslims, the west and anybody who questions you.
I see how you have stopped arguing about islam and have changed the topic (once again). Seems like you have run out of answers/excuses.
By the way. I don't hate islam. But I will not follow it. I respect your right to follow it. But I don't respect and will not tolerate the way you and your fellow people are hypocritical, violent and demeaning to people of other faiths.
-RB
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