Death of a dancing girl
This is what happens when you lock up people in their own room like slaves: if there is a fire or an emergency they cannot escape, and they die:
Aaina Malek, a Pakistani dancer, died in the apartment when the fire broke out as she could not escape. Another girl, Lucky, who was also trapped in the fire, was rescued by neighbours after they broke the door open.
Apparently this is standard practice:
"They normally keep the girls, who perform in dance clubs, locked in their flats during the day for "safety" reasons," said a dancer, who works at another club.
"It is quite common and the management of many Indian and Pakistani night-clubs follows the same practice.
"We are taken to clubs around 8pm and brought back to flats after 3am when the clubs close. We are not allowed to go anywhere. We are given food in the flat and we live like prisoners," she said.
Prisoners condemned to death by fire.
Aaina Malek, a Pakistani dancer, died in the apartment when the fire broke out as she could not escape. Another girl, Lucky, who was also trapped in the fire, was rescued by neighbours after they broke the door open.
Apparently this is standard practice:
"They normally keep the girls, who perform in dance clubs, locked in their flats during the day for "safety" reasons," said a dancer, who works at another club.
"It is quite common and the management of many Indian and Pakistani night-clubs follows the same practice.
"We are taken to clubs around 8pm and brought back to flats after 3am when the clubs close. We are not allowed to go anywhere. We are given food in the flat and we live like prisoners," she said.
Prisoners condemned to death by fire.
91 Comments:
Outrageous... this is borderline white slavery.
wait a minute
It IS white slavery!
How tragic and sad. I'm somehow reminded of this ghastly incident in Saudi a few years ago when fire broke out in a girls school. More than a dozen burnt to death because the religious police didn't want the girls to run out in an "un-islamic" dress code!! Both incidents could've very well been avoided if women were considered humans.
I hope this serves as a wake-up call to the authorities, and this cruel practice of locking these dancers is ended once and for all. I can't imagine how anyone can even justify doing this to their employees, and if they do find some lopsided justification then... shame on you!
SD...,
What do you expect,Las Vegas style where all the entertainers having their own condos,well well, where is GF now,snoozing,the moralistic upkeeper of all the supposedly evils in Sandland.But then what can one expect from GF surely they dont want to rub the connected people the wrong way.
How sad. this reminds me of the many housemaids that have been seriously injured/killed after jumping from apartment windows after being 'locked' inside. I used to work in a Government dept here in Dubai and everyone used to lock their maids (and babies) in when they came to work except the Yemenis. They locked their wives in.
If this is true then a complete boycott of all such clubs should be initiated right now.
What does it mean: "safety reasons"??? What safety reasons? That doesn't make any sense at all.
Moryarti: This isn't 'white slavery.' Pakistanis are not white.
The labour law of the UAE is quite simple: the Arabic word is abd.
Before, if a worker said he/she was not a slave, he/she was branded/beaten.
Today, if a worker (whose condition is the same as before) says he/she is a slave, he/she is beaten/imprisoned.
That's progress.
In the Islamic world it is 1428, and the Islamic world is a big improvement on 1428 Europe (Saudi beheads everyone, not just nobles, for one thing). The question we all ask is, will there be an Islamic Enlightenment? Will the Islamic world in the Islamic year 2000 be like the current Western World?
Congrats Anonymous at 03 August, 2007 02:08, you managed to be racially and religiously offensive in one go. First off, I'm Pakistani, and I'm technically Caucasian. My ancestors came from the Caucas Mountains and I'm whiter than a lot of Anglos. Not that it matters, but FYI.
Second off, what the hell do you mean by all that garbage? No where in this 'Islamic world,' as you've conveniently tagged the UAE (the place is an anaethma of Islamic values), are workers branded as slaves. They are treated appallingly, and utterly unIslamically, but they are not owned. Keep your anti-Islam agenda to yourself. The UAE is screwed up all of its own volition.
its like the NYC Triangle fire all over again...women locked up by their employers
The Islamic world did lead the rest of the world before the renaissance. It somehow got mired and has been lagging behind since. Lets hope that the enlightenment arrives soon.
"D said...
What does it mean: "safety reasons"??? What safety reasons? That doesn't make any sense at all."
The safety they are referring to is safety of their investment. A dance bar runs by the quality of its girls. Every night these girls are being approached by some very well off (and not so well off) guys. Some women look to these men as their ticket out of this life and have married/settled down with them.
So these wankers now believe they are justified in locking up their fellow human beings.
A sad state of affairs that some people believe they "own" their employees. And really sad that the government turns a blind eye to it.
-RB
I just wonder what the reaction would be like if it was a white person or an Emarati who died in a similar situation...........
Can someone here please define what that elusive bird "enlightenment" is?
What do you guys think (and I mean Muslims ONLY please)is the way forward from here? I think there are no 2 opinions amongst Muslims today that we are stagnant since the fall of the Caliphate (1924). We were doing pretty well even after the Renaissance.
So what are the challenges facing us today in your views? And what do you think is the way forward? I am interested in hearing what people at large think. And, please, I am least bothered what non-Muslims have to say about us and what their "solutions" are. I know even then we will have all kinds of crazy unsolicited advices, sigh.
I know I am going to be taken wrong here, but when did I ever try to engage in any PR stunts?
al-republican,
Ha, ha, ha, ha .......... ¿? ROFL :-)
We just went through all this in detail in “Islamic Nation” on UAE Community Blog – you are just asking for trouble! ;-)
Cheers from Germany
Didn't The great prophet own slaves?
And there are suras mentioning that it is ok to have slaves and to have conjugal relations with them.
-RB
Al-rep,
What do you guys think (and I mean Muslims ONLY please)is the way forward from here?
Start your own blog if you only want to talk to Muslims, off-topic or not.
You may have to listen to what Non-Muslims have to say about the mental backwardness in Islamic countries, whether you think there is any backwardness at all or not, and I trust you refer to "enlightenment" in a sarcastic manner because you most probably believe Islam is the perfect state of life, politics, and everything else on Earth, including football probably.
I guess you will have to listen to what we have to say because it does affect us in the "West" a big deal and, for the sake of survival of OUR culture we will not leave you to your own demented devices.
Tough titties; we are here to stay.
Al-rep., don't expect any solutions from your Muslim brothers, or guidance for the 'way forward'.
Your way is the way backwards. Even this country was built by us Non-Muslims.
You merely own the natural resources. Some innovation that is.
Sevensummits, thanks for the alert.
I have gone through the thread there and left my comments on Ibn Batuta's blog entry on Wahhabism (if you are interested).
Your favorite online radical :P
Nick, stop acting tough. It doesn't suit your gay name (what kind of a name is "nick"??).
Anyways, yeah, yeah, you guys are all mighty and advanced and all that other good stuff. You are both a little girl and gay at the same time with your antics.
In any case, I really don't give 2 shits about your solutions to our problems :) Shove your ideas where the sun doesn't shine. After all, that's where they come out from!
Cheers :D
what kind of a name is "nick"?
The shortened version of "Nicholas"?
what does treating other human beings with such despicable disdain have to do with Islam? I'm sure the likes of Nick has his opinion, but the simple question of where doesn't such heinous acts occur? As has also been discussed on the UAE blog most of those involved in the sex industry (providers/pimps/traffickers) are probably not even Muslim to begin with.
Many Latinos here in the US have been killed due to such inhumane actions, including near where i live a few years ago when dozens were burnt in a factory in which they had been locked into in order to minimize their taking breaks.
What is the one thing the culprits have in common in probably all such cases?
they are men....
let's put blame where it belongs - patriarchy! that means Nick you are as culpable as I....
Dear Mr Al.
Why wouldnt you comment on the issue at hand - which is:
1) Why is an islamic country (as you refer to the UAE) having "dancing girls"
2) Why are they being kept locked like slaves
3) Someone here said Islam allows slaves and even sex with them, whats the current islamic answre to that.
PS: I am a muslim and you know who i am :)
AD
Ibn Battuta said ...
As has also been discussed on the UAE blog most of those involved in the sex industry (providers/pimps/traffickers) are probably not even Muslim to begin with.
What does their (providers/pimps/traffickers) religion have to do with this incident? If you’re so particular about this ‘Muslim’ thing, how come this Government allows these gigs to operate on a legal platform?
I'll tell you why how come. It's because your brethren take a mammoth chunk that's belted out of this gig!
Go figure.
Ibn,
what does treating other human beings with such despicable disdain have to do with Islam?
You are obviously refering to Al-republican's remarks about me.
You are right - it has nothing to do with Islam to be an arsehole. Some people just are.
He has btw. already said that he isn't such 'a strong' Muslim, so you shouldn't treat him too harshly.
His head is up where the sun never shines, no chance for enlightenment there...
Apart from that, Ibn, sorry to deflate your bleeding heart 'weltschmerz' - being an arsehole and locking women in their rooms has not much to do with male chausvinism.
It certainly doesn't happen in Europe.
I mean, we beat the shit out of women but at least they can fight back - so that's a level playing field.
Oh no, locking up women is a distinctly Arab treat, and I know why. You see, there's a sociocultural explanantion for that:
Imagine a poor sod like Al-republican who has to wake up at four in the morning to go for prayers. Sure enough he'll be knackered when he finally leaves for work, and just totally unconciously turns the key in the lock.
You know, could happen to anybody.
Hey presto, mystery of so-called Islamic women abuse resolved!!
The end.
Once again Al Republican shows his true colours.
Like his fellow believers he is quick to condemn and belittle other cultures/religions/people. But the minute anyone questions him/his faith/his belief system, he starts to abuse that person.
He never uses logic in his arguments and turns to insults and threats - like his fellow brethren.
Al Republican, I challenge you to an open debate on a blog (i can set it up if you are too busy studying your book). An open civilised debate. If you can prove me wrong (through logic and reasoning) I will willingly accept your ways and come back to the fold (after all isn't it your cult's duty to convert the world).
So what say you, you brainwashed fool?
-RB
His head is up where the sun never shines
ROTFL!! Well said Nick!
Seriously Al-rep! You ought to be incredibly retarded to expect "only Muslims" to post on a public blog! Jeez!!
This al-reek is really thick just like his compatriot who always i*maginate.
How on earth did the whole conversation moved to anit Islam and anti muslims!!! The culprits here are not muslims probably and they didn't do it under the name of islam, so please guys chill! i just have one question: what do these dancers do besides dancing? are they hookers as well? Dubai has become unbelievable!! i bet that the day will come where you'd find them priced in supermarkets.
you have been tagged by me. Please visit my blog to follow the rules I have posted.
to argue that women can fight back after you beat the shit out of them is sick and demented. I'm sure the 20,000-50,000 women that were raped by "civilized"/"enlightened" Christians in Bosnia fought back. wow, Nick, not only are you a bigot who has dropped any sense of making logical and insightful comments, but you are also a mysogynist.
If you are going to make an argument, at least argue with some basis in reality.
fyi: how about some simple facts of how much women really can "fight back" in your "civilized" world:
US: a woman is battered by her husband every 15 seconds.
US: a woman is raped every 90 seconds; of which, only 16% are reported to the police (so much for state/legal protection!)
Spain: one woman is killed every 5 days by her partner, usually her husband (the vast majority are not imprisoned).
UK: every week 2 women are killed by their partners.
UK: only 13% of rape victims reported to the police.
France: 25,000 women are raped per year (nearly 3 every hour).
Abuse comes in multiple forms and no "civilization", regardless of how enlightened it is, is above it.
it is sad with such crimes against humanity turn into a mindless blame-game rather than an "enlightened" discussion....
Starting off with RB, I do not accept your "challenge". I don't fight or "debate" with pansies. Besides, you have already decided that I am a "brainwashed fool", so your entire challenge centers around your ego that is probably looking for a reason to bash me and badmouth me. I will conveniently (much to your annoyance, I am sure) pass :)
Hi AD-
The answers to your questions are:
1) I do not refer to UAE as an "Islamic" country. Having known me for 20 odd years, I thought you should have known that! There is more than a thin line between a MUSLIM and an ISLAMIC country. In any case, vice has existed since time immemorial and will continue till the Hour of Reckoning. Dancing girls existed even in the times of the Khulafa. The State cracked down on it, but haven't you heard of the saying that the criminal is always a step ahead of the law?
AD, why do you always look at an Islamic System as something that is COMPLETELY pure and clean? Humans make up society and societies make systems. Humans have the propensity to do both good and bad. Therefore, vice will exist and one can only try to promote virtue and curb vices to the best of one's ability.
2) I don't know why they are locked! You talk as if I am the person locking them up, haha :) What I can tell you, AD, and I hope you take this with a pinch of salt, I DO NOT PROMOTE THIS INDUSTRY by even going to such places. When was the last time you and the guys went to "Chandni bar"? Or whatever that crazy place is called. Try to think what your role is in all of this by visiting such places. You create the demand and able pimps oblige with the supply. And when such things happen, you cry foul?
3) The issue of "slaves" does not arise in the absence of not just a Khalifa, but also the absence of the fardh al-ayn Jihaad. In any case, in present circumstances, this topic is completely moot.
To all the others who are having a field day cussing me out, I love you all, too :)
aw cmon now Ibn, why put western statistics only? put also here how many has been harassed,raped, murdered, etc. here in the middle east... and it's not only women that's being raped here also men, goats and camels!
@ Anonymous 5 Aug,07:47
Don't you compare Al-rep with i*maginate.
I*maginate is kind of sweet, a little bit like Dory in 'Finding Nemo'.
Al-rep is a dangerous psychotic because is half educated, probably with a B.com. degree, sort of like Mohammed Atta.
@ Anon 5 Aug, 07:47
Don't you compare Al-rep with i*maginate!!
I*maginate is sweet, kind of like Dory in 'Finding Nemo'.
Al-rep is dangerous because is half educated, probably with some B.com degree. Sort of like Mohammed Atta.
Ibn Battuta,
I guess you don't understand the sarcastic tone that Nick was using.
If he wasn't being sarcastic that was a pretty callous statement and shameful.
Some of your statistics are crazy. As per your stats Over 350,000 women are raped every year in the US. And 2.1 Million women are beaten each year. Doesn't sound right man.
I don't think you get the point.
The point is not about whether the west is crime free or better. The point is that in the west there are laws against such abuse. And when there is proof the authorities take action and the punishment is severe.
In many of the Middle Eastern countries, such laws might exist but only lip service is done to them. In fact the book even condones "disciplining" women. In places like Saudi the woman does not even have the option of going to the authorities if her partner abuses her. Look at Jordan, Pakistan etc. "Honour" killers are not even given a tap on the wrist.
-RB
Ibn,
I mean, we beat the shit out of women but at least they can fight back - so that's a level playing field.
It’s called ‘tongue in cheek’. It’s NOT MY misogyny, it’s a realistic look at a cruel world. Abuse happens, but women in the ‘West’ can fight back because they have equal rights. Rights may be abused, but can also be reclaimed.
So then, what does your clever statistics books tell about women being battered, killed, burned alive, circumcised against their will, given away into marriage as teenage girls, IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES?
If there are any statistics at all, that is. Women in oppressive Islamic countries do not know abuse when it hits them square over the forehead, when they are denied rights they never knew they SHOULD HAVE!!
The beauty of Islam: Within its own little system of belief everything is actually honkydory perfect. Women are in their place, thinking for one’s own is not needed and everyone is happy.
Mabrook!
RB-
Just to correct you a little, "honor killings" in the sub-continent has been going on for eons. It is mostly practiced by Sindhi and Punjabi tribes that follow the "Panchayat" system.
Any person who has read even 3-4 pages of history of the sub-continent will tell you that the "panchayat" existed even before Islam reached the sub-continent (i.e. before Muhammad ibn Qasim even set out for sindh). In fact, the "panchayat" even predates Islam!
The "system" of killing women who have pre-marital affairs is referred to as "Karo Kari" in Sindhi. The word itself roots from Sanskrit and is quite clearly not an Islamic practice. The burning of women is another hindu tradition known as "sati", which was banned only as late as the early 1900s.
In our societies (why do you act so naive or are you even desi?) villagers are still following hindu traditions mixed with tid-bits of Islam here and there.
If you are going to make it an issue why people who do such things are not punished in Pakistan then I am afraid your are being really stupid here. Since when did "rule of law" become a salient feature of Pakistani society?? It is one thing to have laws and quite another to implement them. Pakistan has the unenviable record of lacking severly when it comes to implementing the law.
If you still maintain that "karo kari" is an Islamic practice even with the facts given above (since bashing Islam is your national hobby), could you kindly bring us but ONE instance of "honor killing" during the times of Rasulullah (SAW) or the era of the Khulafa ar-Rashideen?
Nick:
I may be dangerous and perhaps to your likes even psychotic, but my education happens to be a double-majors in Electrical and Computer Engineering. Just thought I'd set your evangelical, neocon facts straight. By the way, when are you guys planning to bomb Makkah and Madeenah? :P Maybe RB can be the pilot to deliver those bombs?
Sigh, it's funny how to Americans BOMBING is a one-stop solution for ALL problems hehe.
By the way, when are you guys planning to bomb Makkah and Madeenah? :P Maybe RB can be the pilot to deliver those bombs?
Al Rep
I'm not even Moslem but such a statement coming from one truly shows where you're coming from.
I wouldn't be surprised if you people blame such an atrocity on the West, having committed this act of destruction yourselves.
Al Republican,
So I guess the honour killings in Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Saudi and all are due to the Hindu Panchayat system right?
We really have to wipe those hindus and their evil out right? Oh wait, isn't that already on your ummah's/brethren's agenda.
Al Republican, atleast the
Hindus banned Sati. What have your brethren done about all their evil practices? Turn a blind eye (cos most of it is sanctioned by your book) and blame the west.
-RB
Hey Al Republican,
When will you come out and say that all non-believers should be killed or should live as Dhimmis?
-RB
Al-rep,
You studied Electrical and Computer Engineering
Yup.
That explains a lot about your knowledge history.
'Desi' knowledge.
In any case it may come in handy one day,what with remote detonators and stuff, right?
Hey Al Republican,
Since you declined my challenge, I guess you know that your belief system is a hypocritical, illogical and evil one. And that it cannot stand upto any logical analysis.
Since your forfeited, I guess I won.
-RB
RB-
Saudi, Iran, honor killings? I can agree with Jordan where the law is weak, but with Saudia and Iran!? I think it's your idiosyncrasies getting the better of you again :)
Destroy hindus?? Hardly, Sir! Muslims ruled India for over a thousand years. By that time we could have destroyed it all and several times over. Don't forget this is the same Mughal Dynasty that beat the hell out of the Tataris while they were playing "holi" with the bloods of every nation that came in their path. They knocked down the entire Caliphate in the Arab World, loting and maiming, but couldn't even set foot on Indian soil thanks to the Tughlaq forces in Hindustan.
Sorry to disappoint you, kiddo, but the Muslims of Hindustan (amongst many other places) were compassionate with Hindus :) They took them as brothers and introduced the concept of equality when Hind was drenched in the caste system. Heard of Moinuddin Chishti? Nizamuddin Awliya? Mullah Kifayatullah? Bakthiyar Kaki? Mirza Jan-e-Janan? Bulleh Shah? Or have you never heard these names before? The list is too exhaustive to go over. But, bigots like you never see this part of history.
Or have you forgotten how during the mutiny of 1857 the hindus came to a MUSLIM to lead their revolt, namely, Bahadur Shah Zafar? Or are you forgetting Sayyid Ahmad Barelwi who fought for the freedom of hindus against the Brits even before the mutiny of 1857? Stop masturbating and READ history for a change!
And what do you want us to ban?? "Honor killings"?? Please point out WHERE in Islamic law do you find this and we will gladly wipe it out for you.
STicker,
The workers in the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire were not locked in. They became trapped because the doors opened inwards. In the rapidly growing fire,and panic, people stampeded for the doors and pile-ups ensued, which meant those behind could not access or open the doors. That fire gave rise to the building codes which now ensure all fire doors must open outwards.
I seem to remember a more recent fire in the city, in which workers were illegally locked in, but can not recall the details, or subsequent prosecutions.
Monty
Yes, you won, RB.
Can we all clap for this little girl before she starts crying and throwing a fit? :)
Al Republican,
What a rosy picture you paint. That the Mughals treated Hindus like their brothers. That is the funniest. So like your brethren - you gloss over facts and try to make it seem like the Muslims were the fairest of rulers.
If these Muslims were so peaceful, how come they invaded other lands? You mean to say they just walked in and people converted of their own accord. The fact is millions of Hindus were slaughtered over the course of centuries. After a while it slowed down as the Mughals had to worry about the British. If they were so peaceful why did they destroy so many temples and even build mosques over some of them (a similar story to Dome of the Rock - where the Jewish temple was destroyed and now your brethren claim that place as their own). Sounds like a very tolerant religion.
To this day in Muslim countries - minorities are prosecuted. Look at the percentage of non-muslims in any muslims country and you see that it has fallen sharply over the past 50-100 years. Bethleham was 80% Christian in 1950 now it is less than 12. Pakistan had 15% Hindus and now they are about 1 %. Why? Cos of forced conversions and because they live as dhimmis.
Here are exerpts from a letter by Tipu Sultan (who only started to respect others when the British started to beat him) - Tipu Sultan & his ideology
1. Letter dated March 22, 1788, to Abdul Kadir: "Over 12,000 Hindus were honoured with Islam. There were many Namboodri Brahmins among them. This achievement should be widely publicised among the Hindus. Then the local Hindus should be brought before you and converted to Islam. No Namboodri Brahmin should be spared. "
2. Letter dated December 14, 1788, to his army chief in Calicut: " I am sending two of my followers with Mir Hussain Ali. With their assistance, you should capture and kill all Hindus. Those below 20 may be kept in prison and 5000 from the rest should be killed from the tree-tops. These are my orders."
3. Letter dated January 18, 1790, to Syed Abdul Dulai: " ...almost all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam. I consider this as Jehad."
And your ridiculous Bahadur Shah Example. The reason people (and not just hindus) people turned to him was he was seen as a symbol of the old days and that his kingdom was the largest. He was used as a rallying point.
I love how you twist everything around to paint you and your brethren in a rosy picture.
-RB
And to Ibn Battuta - here is a statistic to chew on:
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'
16,791
Iraqi civilians killed last year by "Terrorists" (guess what is the one unifying factor for all these Terrorists - their Religion)
225*
Iraqi civilians killed collaterally in incidents involving Americans
(and Terrorists)
Iraqis are being murdered by these terrorists, not by the west.
-RB
Hey Al Republican,
Oh by the way here are some links showcasing your religion of peace:
Flog Me
Philipines Terror
Yep these are your people:
No more Music
Oh look More instances of treating others as equals
Hindus in Pakistan
Apparently Darfur is just a scuffle between shepherds over water and its the Jooos who are causing trouble:
Darfur according to you know who
Maldives (a 100% Islamic country by the way - Read the fourth paragraph to be truly shocked)
Maldives
Just plain sad:
Honour Killing
Apologies to SD for hijacking this thread.
-RB
And Al Republican,
Its interesting how you apologists keep denying that honour killings have anything to with your religion. If thats the case why was this edict issued:
Fatwa
-RB
By the way, when are you guys planning to bomb Makkah and Madeenah? :P Maybe RB can be the pilot to deliver those bombs?
This is definitely a statement from a severely deranged individual who needs help...before its too late.
H in A says :
Al Rep, your confusion in choosing between west and islam is probably inherited from your country pakistan.
You do everything your cult is being blamed for these days :
- give bullshit statistics and hope it will convince innocents, just like your faith
- throw personal insults the moment anyone challenges you
- refuse to take on arguments you started off
- living in the so called past glory of his faith. it was never glorious for others, depends on whose version you read
- and for a change, let us forget the past. what are your guys doing to the world today. do you know how much more progressive and peaceful it wouldve been today if not for your brethren. why blame others.
- science education also has not succeeded in making you question things and find logic. you just use it to twist arguments . what a sad character.
i guess if you get a chance you would bomb us right? not very different from your glorious past.
nick, the girl looks cute to you since you are in some bachelor acco in uae. try living with her for a day and you will see that she is just his sister, from the same country, with the same confusions. funny
can someone remind me how we went from the death of a dancer lock up in her burning appartment TO a religion bashing contest........
RB-
Typical response. I have started expecting such howash from you. Thank you for your ignorance!
"..the fact is millions of Hindus were slaughtered over the course of centuries."
MILLIONS?? I am very interested in seeing your sources for this absurd allegation! If you are referring to Nadir Shah sacking of Delhi then please get your facts straight. Nadir Shah ATTACKED the MUSLIM EMPIRE. He attacked Delhi to loot the Mughals (who were declining in power). Nadir Shah killed thousands of people mostly MUSLIMS. So I dont see how you make this a matter of Muslims killing hindus for the purpose of proselytization?? But even the most liberal accounts of Nadir Shah's sacking of Delhi doesn't go above 30,000 deaths! What kind of silly book are you reading?
Thanks for bringing up Tipu Sultan. A cursory glance over your remarks on his letters make it absolutely clear where you are drawing your "facts" from - an anti-Tipu Sultan book (also on the net now) followed by doordarshan (Indian TV) playing serials of Tipu Sultan as a hero. How pathetic! Tipu Sultan is a hero for both hindus and muslims of India alike!
Common, RB, come out of your shell and tell us who you are. You certainly dont sound Indian or Pakistani because your knowledge on sub-continent history is abysmal (and that is putting it kindly)! Tipu Sultan is considered a SECULAR figure in Indian history! The guy didn't even sport a beard, for crying out loud! He is a freedom fighter in every Indian history book worth its salt.
Also, for your kind information, all these stories of his massacres are vehemently challenged by historians as the primary sources for these "facts" are found in notably (and exclusively) 2 books by British writers who were summoned to start a smear campaign against Tipu Sultan to make him lose credibility amongst the locals. Here is an excerpt from wikipedia I think puts the matter to rest:
"Tippu Sultan's religious persecution of Hindus and Christians are largely derived from the work of early British authors such as Kirkpatrick and Wilks, whom they do not consider to be entirely reliable. A. S. Chetty argues that Wilks’ account in particular cannot be trusted, Irfan Habib and Mohibbul Hasan argues that these early British authors had a strong vested interest in presenting Tippu Sultan as a tyrant from whom the British had "liberated" Mysore. This assessment is echoed by Brittlebank in her recent work where she writes that Wilks and Kirkpatrick must be used with particular care as both authors had taken part in the wars against Tippu Sultan and were closely connected to the administrations of Lord Cornwallis and Richard Wellesley, 1st Marquess Wellesley."
There is more, but I will suffice with this much and if you want more embarrassing details, please look up Tipu Sultan on Wikipedia.
Your unscrupulous methods of quoting historical references stands exposed, but I can hardly blame a wanker trying to act learned. Sometimes I feel I am insulting my own intellience talking to a dimwit such as yourself. No wonder you quoted those 3 exceprts of "letters" from the works of Wilks!! Alas, conveniently, there is no manuscript of these letters and all we have are the words of the British propogandists whom foolish people like you believe without verifiying :)
Furthermore your nonsensical assertions can be trashed by the glaring facts such as the ministers who were handpicked by the Tiger of Mysore (what was Tipu's title just in case you didnt know :P). They were MOSTLY HINDUS! You are such a joker! This is like someone claiming that Akbar Badshah (I hope you know who he was) was an Islamic fanatic! I just dont know if I should laugh or cry at your gullible attitude?
It is nice to see that you have not commented on a single personality whom I mentioned earlier. My guess is that you googled all of them and found nothing "spicy" worth pasting here. Your deafening silence is an admission of your utter incompetence at this level.
Finally, it is not the Mughals who converted the Hindus, it were the sufiya-e-kiram. All the Mughals cared about was ruling and governance. The Islamic Da'wah was led by the likes of Moinuddin Chishti, Nizamuddin Awliya et al. And you will not even find forged accounts of forced conversion by these individuals.
I suggest you dont bother replying back because this is clearly not your cup of tea. Just go back to your masturbation. You are a pretty frustrated individual for a habitual wanker.
RB.....
I cant understand how you hate muslims so much, and then decide to live amongst them. Its not like you were born here right?
I have noticed every time how you turn every topic against Islam, no matter how irrelevant. You have issues man, and you need to get them sorted. Seriously now.
As for the others; I ma willing to bet every quid I got, and willing to throw in my grandma in the bet that their are far far more women being raped and abused in so called "western" societies than in the middle east. I am so confident of that its unbelievable. Thats a slum dunk.
RB-
What is that you eat and drink that makes you SO THICK? The fatwa you pasted calls for banning of honor killings, but how do you deduce from it that honor killings is an Islamic practice??
Take a deep breath, relax, and concentrate on what I am saying: Where is "honor killings" condoned in the Islamic Sharee'ah?? Please, pretty please, show it to us!
If the government of Dubai bans cars with neon lights you will tell us that Islam is against neon lights? You are such a sad and pathetic joker! Honor killings are going on around from China to Eastern Europe. These are (in)human practices of oppressing women. It has nothing to do with religion!
Honor killings have been going on in many parts of Arabia centuries before Muhammad ibn Abdullah (SAW) came with the message of Islam. Just like burying newborn girls was a practice amongst Egyptians during the times of Moses. So now you are going to blame Islam for these practices?? And equally idiotic person like you would be one who would blame Judaism for these inhumane practices.
Sigh, why do I waste my time on you?
How sad this whole discussion has become. Here we have a case, highlighted by SD without references to religion, etc., of a young woman who was probably forcibly brought to the UAE (or brought here under false promises), locked in a room like an animal, and then paid the highest price with her life for someone else's financial gain.
And then, within 7 comments, everyone has forgotten about this human being who died, and are yet again into personal attacks, religious and ideological bickering, etc.
This incident was not indicative of any particular religion - there have been numerous cases like this in China too. What it is indicative of are scumbag that exist within every society (regardless of religion or race) that are willing to oppress and subjugate other people for their own personal financial gain, and of a government that places a relatively low priority on human rights, particularly of those that are expatriates.
Anybody who has lived in Dubai (and I did until very recently) knows that the government only responds to these types of issues when they become sources of bad publicity in the international media. Congrats to SD for doing her part to try and raise the awareness level of these issues.
And to the majority of the commenters on this page, I hope your god is more compassionate and tolerant than you yourselves are ...
Al Republican,
You quote sources that are favourable to your side of the argument. And I quote sources that are favourable to mine.
And just cos that stupid serial "Sword of Tipu Sultan" was run on DD doesn't mean it was all true. Does that mean that the Ramayan and Mahabharat are all true (since they ran on DD too). If they are then you are cetainly praying to the wrong person.
Again that glorious history of yours is just glorious for your side. My point still remains, your religion was spread by the sword.
There are statistics all over the world that prove that Dhimmis (minorities in Muslim countries) are slowly wiped out through violence or other forms of persecution. Prove to me why minorities seem to disappear or are disappearing in most muslim countries. I thought you guys respect all religions.
Your religion is constantly at war. One of its main duties is to make the complete world Islamic and either destroy the people who don't convert or make them live in dhimmitude.
By the way, how do you like all the other news links that directly link you and your brethren to some of the most evil practices in the world. I see you have no answer to that. Would you like some more?
And to that anonymous person (@ 06 August, 2007 14:25) who says that there are more rapes in the west. Possibly but if you look at my Maldives link (in an earlier) as an example, wouldn't you think there are a lot of women in the muslim world who are scared to come out.
p.s Al republican I see you have turned to name calling again. tch tch tch. Very pathetic.
-RB
Al Republican,
You know why you waste your time one me? Cos you can't stand the fact that someone calls you and your brethren what you are - a barbaric hypocritical evil cult.
-RB
Let me do you a favor, RB. OK, me and my brethren (AD do you hear that? :P) are a "barbaric hypocritical evil cult". Happy?
Now that we have established this much (and I trust the level headed individuals here can draw their own conclusions) what does it make you? Impotent that you can't stop this "evil cult" from multiplying? Barbaric for letting by no opportunity to set off on your vitriolic tirade against anything me or my "brethren" say? Hypocritical for quoting forged, unverified and unauthentic sources in unscrupulous ways to forward your hate-mongering propoganda against Islam?
In any event, what I set out to do has been achieved. You have only yourself to blame. Somehow you just HAVE to drag me into your crazy discourses that end abruptly when I just warm up. You seem to have some serious issues with me. God alone knows what is your beef with me? Maybe you find a good scapegoat in me to attack Islam ad nauseam?
RB...
You are getting boring now, please lay off it. You hijack everything and turn it into some Muslim issue.
Criticise Islam as much as you want, but if its completely irrelevant to the discussion then dont. Otherwise you just become a bore.
Given how much you hate muslims, I can imagine your relationships with people is extremely duplicitous. You probably laugh with them, and then grit your teeth as soon as they leave you.
You are pathetic, Sad , Irrelevant idiot. Get a life, moron.
-RB
06 August, 2007 01:14
Your comment brought a very disturbing thought to mind. How did Saddam manage to keep their monster out of Iraq and now the occupying forces seem to either breed them or throw the gates open to these inhuman creatures?
I M Human
Al Republican
You could be right RB could hve been set loose to create discord in the subcontinent. Going by RB's logic one wonders what happend to the Buddist in the Land of Buddha!
Nick
You have got Al Replican's now could you pls furnish your qualifications... pls be honest. And no offence just curious. Your comments are interesting and well written.
-Curious
To anonymous @ 06 August, 2007 20:59
I find it surprising that people blame America for Iraq (which is an illegal war, I admit). How can you blame them for the actions of an evil cult. They cannot be held responsible because some people decide to blow up their fellow human beings.
It is like holding Dubai Police responsible cos they did not stop murders from happening in Dubai.
How can anyone be responsible for the actions of a third person?
-RB
To Anonymous @ 06 August, 2007 20:49 ,
Apologies for borig you. You see I am not very good at twisting the truth like our friend Al Republican. Lies are always more juicy you see.
You want something juicy, read the Holy Book. See the amount of violence sanctioned in there. See for yourself the hatred against non-believers. See the lack of logic. See the mistreatment of women. See the Evil.
And damn right I am anti Muslim - I say it proudly. I am anti Muslim the same way people are anti slavery, anti bigotry, anti hypocrisy, anti pedophilia.
- RB
BTW: you type a lot like Al Republican.... :-)
@ Anon, 06 August 21:21
My qualifications?
Apart from three years of abandoned studies of philosophy and law only one degree and chartered membership as construction professional.
Enough of this pissing contest already.
My real qualifications are being European, agnostic, democratic and exercising my rights and duties as a constituent.
-------------------------------------------
@ RB, and various Anon’s
There is no point discussing anything related to Islam with Al-rep.
He has read many books. The trouble is he is also half blind and has therefore read only the pages on the right side. His knowledge is selective and partial, and partisan, and for that he is even surer of it.
One can be a perfectly qualified professional like a doctor, lawyer or engineer, like Mohammed Atta or that Zawahiri guy, or those twerps in Glasgow. (Indian, Pakistani doctors, some relatives of Al-rep perhaps.)
People like those, and I count Al-rep as a promising Al Quaeda or Hamas apprentice, are the most dangerous because of their pernicious intransigence.
They have already made up their minds and are 250% convinced about themselves.
The absence of doubt in a man is a surefire sign of ultimate stupidity, notwithstanding technical intelligence and skill.
[As Sokrates said towards the end of his life - and he knew more than most his peers: ‘I know that I know nothing”, = the more you know, the more doubts you will have]
It is the eyes of the normal, docile, undereducated and ignorant Muslims we have to open and whom we must convince of the validity of engaging with one another, and the world, according to principles of a free civil society based on equality, legality, freedom and merit of the individual and his/her free motivation partake in a collective, and NOT according to the principles of their own totalitarian prime divider societies which demand of its citizens unquestioning absolute adherence to conditions at the pain of ostracism or rejection (a prime divider being e.g. a state religion or doctrine).
The fact that most Muslims are ignorant of the concept of secularity and equality between sexes, and the fact that they cannot (or do not want to) distinguish between their actions as citizens or actions as believers does NOT exempt them from being judged as Muslim abusers, as opposed to simply, abusers.
It other words, everything a Muslim does will be judged as an Islamic action.
Why, we didn’t make these rules?!!
Muslims themselves claim that Islam is a way of life and guides them in everything they do, and that they are Muslims first and foremost, and citizens of a particular state second.
Nick, one of your qualificatins is being European. Damn its dandy being white. I mean wa-hey.
Can one be white? Can you use your wasta whith the great white nation to make some people white please.
You know I know some people who it is rather urgent they become part of the great qualified white people. they dont want to be exterminated you see, so they kind of figure its best to be white and avoid the fate of so many dark people you know those people whose skin tone does not qualify as a qualification.
So I await your answe then, ok.
Nick,
I know there is no point arguing with Al Republican, but I do it in the hope that there are others who will see reason and will become apostates. Hopefully people will see that the reason these so called fundamentalists kill and oppress others because it says so in the book. Hopefully they will see that subjecting minorities to dhimmitude is wrong. Hopefully they will see that it no god can be called good if he is so vindictive and violent. Hopefully they will see what a violent, evil and perverted person their great founder is.
But what really upsets me nowadays is how newspapers, authorities and the common man in the west and in other countries either don't see the truth about this cult or are too scared to talk about it.
It is time to stop being tolerant towards these intolerant people. Or tolerance will become our own downfall.
-RB
hey al ive been reading your responses.. quite funny man.. well done!
AD
RB - please go jack off .
AD,
Why? Would you like to Watch?
-RB
This episode is such a shame, ain't it?
So, who's accountable for this girl's death?
Will someone ever take the fall for this innocent loss of life?
The way I understand Islam, from my many Muslim friends, is that it's a clean, peaceful and devout religion.
What I'm seeing here is not clean, peaceful nor devout.
Muslim people on this thread, you bring shame to the religion of your family. Shame.
You should be embarrassed. Does your mother know the things you type here? If she did, would she consider you a worthy son?
Here you have such an opportunity to let non-Muslim people understand a bit about why Islam is such a powerful force in the world.
But instead I walk away thinking I would never be able to be a part of something so hateful.
Salaam Alaikum Al-Republican,
I have admired your arguments every now and then. But I feel you go overboard with your slandering of other religions and people who express their opinions. Please understand that Islam does not need justification. I'm a muslim myself and religion is a very personal matter to me. We shouldn't be surprised to be looked down upon when even seemingly well-educated people make extreme statements, supposedly in defense of Islam. Please tone down a little. I hope you understand my concerns.
Thanks.
the key word is 'intolerant'.
What does a dancer dieing in an apartment have to do with Islam? Why attack the religion? stop listening to Al rep you guys give him too much cridet and attention if you want to find out about Islam simply get the best book on the subject; Its called the Quran, read it with an open mind and if you still disagree seeing as your in Dubai hey no harm no foul, Most muslims forget this but u as a muslim should only defend your self against attacks if ppl insult or spread lies about islam its Allah who will defend it, you go about your business and speak only the truth and only what you know. not wat u heard someone say they heard on a tv show 3 years back. As for the poor young girl who died it trully is a sad story and seeing as she is pakistani im guessing this story will blow over tomorrow and everyone will forget. This doesnt have anything to do with her cast a few monthes ago a poor english couple died in a car accident on Wasl road Dubai the British community went out even some who didnt know the poor couple went and laid flowers and wrote petitions for the U turn to be closed(it is still closed to this day). What about the pakistani girl no one has visited the building she died in to lay flowers, patrons of these dance clubs are still going strong even after they admited it an industry norm to lock up ppl against thier will for thier "saftey", and finally no one has so much as sent a petition or started something on the internet to try and end this or at least face ppl with the fact that it is a problem that aint going away easy. The goverment of Dubai has bigger things to worry about than a dancing girl dieing in a fire but thats because the ppl of Dubai complained about it for a day then went back to complaining about rent and traffic. Any way I guess what im trying to say is we are all to blame but i guess for this to be a constructive blog we should offer solutions from our experinces and our own logic and the way we each think diffrently; which do not include blowing or hitting anybody, on how to fix this problem I suggest starting an online petition to boycot these clubs untill they free the remaining girls who are still traped in thier accomodations let us prey this is the last person to die in vain without changing us for the better. Dont let this problem crawl away so easily let us for once not be like the generations that have gone and are going and not asign blame but instead solve the problem at hand.
HNN
Dear Ann,
While I totally agree with your comment, is it only Muslims behaving distasteful on this blog? Please read some other blogs, e.g. “Islamic Nation” (UAE Community blog, Archives July) and see why some of them are so outraged.
Of course all this has absolutely nothing to do with Islam or as a matter of fact any other religious behavior and can simply be rated as a demonstration of bad manners. (From both sides!!!) Extremely amusing was the result of my experiment to simply “turn the other cheek” instead of continuing with an online war:
And especially for Al Republican :- )
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." (Luke 6:27-31. NIV)
… you have something similar in Islam (please somebody quote it for all of us) – get away from all that hate “my favorite radical”. ;-)
And for Nick,
I do not work for an UN institution or any humanitarian NGO and am not earning or wasting European tax money. :- ) Not an activist of any type, not a missionary either, but simply an independent scientist. So you will have to find a new hate pet … ;-).
Huuugs from Germany
Sevensummits and the anonymous person who gave me some good advice:
I appreciate your good advice and will try my best to correct my brash behavior at times. I simply lose my cool at individuals such as RB and nick (although RB is in a league of his own!).
Like I said, I don't even know why I bother with Mr. RB. But, a lot of times I answer back simply because I know that people like him catch most muslims offguard as Muslims these days aren't too concerned about the intricacies of faith. It is the oldest trick in the book of theirs. If you guys have read William Dalrymple's "The last Mughal" you will see how RB comes across this character known as Padre Jennings. He worked on similar principles as RB does here.
As for nick, he can get silly with his typical fox news kinda talk. I normally ignore most of his comments because he may be venemous, but I have yet not seen him be unscrupulous in his method. So I kinda laugh at his comments :p
And just to rub it into nick... HEHE :)
Good comment SS.
You should not take Nick too seriously. He has his limitations, he is a "know it all". He is the court jester we need him to make this place a little lively.
Keep it up Nick.
Al-rep,
You can refrain from goading me. I am tired of talking to a wall and shan't address your stupid comments and slander in the future.
Instead I will start my own blog after my vacation where I will 'beat' the living shit out of people like you. Wallah!
Nick-
Oooo a blog version of Fox News!!
So you don't want to talk to me, but would rather talk to yourself about me? How sad is that?!? You can take anonymous @ 10 August, 2007 09:46 advice and call your blog, "The mad jester's courthouse".
I pity your keyboard already - that is the only thing that will be pounded. Anyway, I will try dropping by sometimes because there really is some serious shit inside you that needs to be beaten out. I am just glad you are taking the initative of doing that to yourself rather than having me and my "brethren" do it to you :)
Thanks Anon @ 09:46 :)
Actually I also enjoy Nick’s style and he is certainly making this blogoshere a little lively. [especially how our really tough macho is falling for the displayed bimbolette approach and there he has just so much in common with Al-Rep :- )))) ] Nope, I wouldn’t take the time to comment, if I did not see some serious noteworthy remarks in between all those f…s and I hope that he will elaborate on some of those observations in his future blog. (secularism, gender, economic policies, etc.)
Nick,
Waiting in anticipation – and if they allow you to take more than two weeks of R&R, we will write a petition :- )
WTF - has this become a Nick bashing thread or what?!! Does that not affect your prayers?
Anon 10 Aug 09:46,
I am the Islamic version of a court jester. It's called a dhimmi. And when I say something 'offensive' I'll be deported.
Al -rep,
you are most welcome to drop by. I won't enable comment moderation but let you make a fool of yourself instead.
Seven,
I don't know what your beef is with the UAE. I guess they threw you out of all German blogs for lecturing in 25" long comments and you have nowhere else to go but soo much to say.
For you especially I will enable comment moderation.
And press 'delete'.
Hahaha! Nick you are seriously a funny guy! I like your sense of humor :)
By the way, just in case you are intereted, I have my own blog:
http://al-republican.blogspot.com/
You may visit there and "beat the shit" out of me there if you wish.
Looking forward to your auspicious company.
I can see why Al-Rep was desperate to shamelessly promote his blog here. Its a sad place for sad people to talk about sad things! No wonder he has hardly been getting real people to read! So please do him a favour and visit his blog.
Hey Al Republican,
I am not getting into the intricacies of your religion, I just keep pointing out the inconsistensies and evil in your religion.
Thanks for comparing me to a fictional person. I however have a comparison for you - You are a version of Abu Hamza
Have you ever seen any such letters sent by the non-muslims majority to a muslim minority?
Oh look - Ask for rights and recieve abuse
No compulsion in Islam? I think NOT
The evidence is all around us and yet we tolerate these intolerant people.
Our tolerance is going to be our downfall.
-RB
Religious tolerance? My foot!
RB:
I will just ignore your silly rantings because I really do think you deserve to be ignored. You have some serious issues and I find it hard to believe that SD allows you to keep going off on a tangent. In any case, I am not wasting any time with you anymore.
Just something that I should point out to you: Padre Jennings was NOT a fictional character. You haven't read the book, have you? That doesn't surprize me. Padre Jennings was the infamous evangelist who came under the patronage of the East India company to lead the hindus and muslims out of their ignorance and save them from eternal damnation.
If you ever got your hands on his missionary rantings, you would see how SIMILAR he is to you :)
Al Republican,
What makes me laugh is how you continue to ignore the points I make (and the factual information I provide) and instead focus on my lack of knowledge of some missionary guy who barely gets a mention in most books.
So well done, Al Republican, you have proven that you have more obscure historical knowledge than I do. "Applause"
Now how about getting back to the present and looking closely at your religion and realise the evil and violence it perpetuates.
-RB
Al-rep,
I haven't read the book, but will do so soon.
From what I glean, your comparison of RB to Padre Jennings is flawed in several ways.
Last Mughal-synopsis
1. Padre Jennings was a proselytizing 'evangeligist' missionary more than 150 years ago, in a climate of:
2. Imperialist cultural arrogance of the East India Co.
3. RB is simply pissed off with Islam as a religion and the condemnation he receives from holier-than-thou Muslims who cannot accept his -sometimes wildly irrational- criticism
4. RB is not proselytizing but simply chastising what is wrong with the application of Islam. He is not doing himself any favours by bringing up several unsuitable examples (although several very relevant ones, too).
5. Today's globalized economy and systems of more or less interventionist politics is nothing like the East India Co. or Raj. The underlying principle of the 'neocon' nation building efforts is quite realistically that we need to create common ground and determine the terms for future collaboration because a) the other counterparty doesn't have viable terms and nobody else will propose them, least of all the UN, and b) we NEED to work together with the "rest of the world". This is not exploitation.
Aw, shudup for heavens sake...a woman died because she was locked up . She was not a slave , she was a paid employee but she and people like her are kept locked up. This does not have to be looked with a religious eye but with a humanitarian one...for once stop sizing each others religions and become what ur religions tell u to be : good human beings...
nick, u the man...
SD , will you please close this chapter and move on to some new topic .
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