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20 January, 2007

Go West

Oh god - it's Blame The West time again:

The western media are widely advertising "homosexuality, which is influencing the youth," [Moetaz Bu Bashy] said. The issue might begin as a "likening or imitating of the opposite sex, but in many cases it develops into physical intimacy [homosexuality]," he said.

You might find it's actually the total segregation of young men and women until marriage that leads to horny straight males "experimenting" with one another.

The rest will be biological homosexuals whose orientation has absolutely nothing to do with the West and everything to do with the hard-wired instincts they were born with.

Put that in your shisha pipe and smoke it.


NB: homophobic comments will not be approved, regardless if they are tarted up with a load of hadiths or not. Bigotry is bigotry and it's not getting posted here.

Labels:

114 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This particular guy should visit some of the segregated public schools to see just how much experimentation goes on. Why, the stories I've heard from Rashid School for Boys and Latifah School for Girls alumni would make for some pretty sensuous homoerotic reading.

20 January, 2007 05:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This isn't a comment about the article you just linked to, but I'm wondering why the government of the U.A.E. decided to put www.flickr.com on their list of banned sites? It worked fine last night, but now it doesn't...

20 January, 2007 09:54  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read your blog regularly, but rarely comment, however, on this one I have to say: I agree with you whole heartedly.
Its hilarious that the Western media is blamed for homosexuality. What a load of bollocks.

20 January, 2007 10:27  
Blogger localexpat said...

hmmmm exactly what i've said in my post on the Homosexual subculture...

SD you not plagiarising my ideas are you???? :-p

20 January, 2007 10:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's the same thing that went through my head when I read that article on Gulf News. The West is not responsible for everything.

20 January, 2007 10:36  
Blogger localexpat said...

i just read the article...what a load of bullshit ...seriously... which god damn hole has this guy lived in ?

Im am sure he hasn't heard of Alfred Kinsey

20 January, 2007 10:42  
Blogger Kiwi Boy said...

Darnit, SD, how do you do it?! You read and commented about the article even before I'd woken up!
I wrote a slightly longer and more venomous post about this on the community blog.

20 January, 2007 10:46  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We're here and we're queer!
Quick! Mothers hide your sons!

20 January, 2007 10:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At least someone's held on to their marbles here!

20 January, 2007 11:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A local woman told me once that she was in some kind of university here and she was staying in some kind of all female dorm. According to her, homosexuality was very very common among the girls, mainly nationals or GCC.

But then this is not so much different from similar schools in Europe...

20 January, 2007 11:04  
Blogger Dubai@Random said...

According to one of my sources, it's not just horny straight males.

20 January, 2007 12:14  
Blogger CG said...

They are ALL getting up to it. They are highly sexed/frustrated young people, who do not need sex education classes from the previous generation who also dabbled in a little same-sex-fun.
This is one of the main reasons (besides getting a decent education) that my kids are in schools intended for expats.

20 January, 2007 17:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whoeva u r...usually like ur posts...but dint like ur commnt at the end... rnt u guilty of bigotry n opinionatedness urself whn u refer 2 ny religions words of wisdom so derogatingly...

20 January, 2007 17:44  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

20 January, 2007 19:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Many of them are raised by foreign housemaids and tend to pick up alien behaviour."

I have not seen too many Western housemaids, most seem to come from Sub-Continent, so possibly "Western" is just there to grab headlines!

"He said it is commonly witnessed among pupils of grades 7 to 9 and it is dominant among females, in comparison to males."

So yet again it is women leading us men astray, by setting such a poor example to us males!
Girls, I also read, will be educated about this taboo subject earlier than boys!

Shame my single sex school in UK did not bring this to my attention all those years ago, I enjoyed the pursuit of the other sex.

What a paradox that most of us feel the need for anonymity, but there again this is the secret society, Masons not allowed!

Happy New Year.

20 January, 2007 19:57  
Blogger CG said...

I disagree on your comments re: Oman.

I have good reason to believe that his status leaves him unable to 'do the right thing' with his long term partner.

20 January, 2007 21:35  
Blogger Keefieboy said...

What a load of tosh that article was. You might hope they'd be a little bit interested in preventing AIDS and unwanted babies. Anyways, happy 1428 y'all.

20 January, 2007 22:05  
Anonymous blogrosh said...

This is such a sad sad article for GN and it's subscribers. I am confused with blaming the west for such stuff, yet this country seems to be thriving to achieve/duplicate success of western economies?

I mean striaght souls in the west remain straight - they don't "become" homosexuals inspite of living with gays & lesbians in society? So why would "straight" UAEians become gays or lesbians - hmmmmmm?

20 January, 2007 22:34  
Blogger secretdubai said...

What I would really like is to be presented with a practicising homosexual that "chose" to be homosexual after seeing it "advertised" on TV. I don't mean someone that was already gay but only had the courage to come out after seeing it on TV.

I mean someone with zero homosexual instincts that chose to practise as a homosexual after seeing it on TV.

Seriously.

Just find me that one man, and I will reconsider my opinions thus far.

20 January, 2007 22:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think no one would disagree that the repression and segregation that kids live in is to blame. But the way I see is it is that this is the excuse for this part of the world. The “west” however, and to be specific, the USA, are influencing their own societies/people through their own media, that being gay is cool and is “like totally awesome!!”.
Whatever is leaked from their media to us is only fulfilling and emphasizing the horny wet dreams of the oppressed youth...

21 January, 2007 00:24  
Blogger secretdubai said...

The “west” however, and to be specific, the USA, are influencing their own societies/people through their own media, that being gay is cool and is “like totally awesome!!”.

I repeat: find me just one person - Arab or Western - who had 100% heterosexual instincts but decided to become a homosexual after watching television/the media.

I'm willing to be open minded about the impact of media on homosexual orientation. But I have to see one sole iota of evidence anywhere in the world.

21 January, 2007 00:30  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read that article in gulf news and could not stop laughing....it's ridiculous. Takes the phrase "burying your head in the sand" to new heights. Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of man...but now since the "west" is "advertising" it, suddenly it's just now creeping into the Arab community, after all these thousands of years? Comical. Just more anti-western propaganda...add it to the list.

21 January, 2007 00:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don’t think that I’m going to revoke your argument if I find “one person Arab or Western - who had 100% heterosexual instincts but decided to become a homosexual after watching television/the media.” Because I think that I can find at least one in the world if I research every person in the human race since the beginning of humanity.
What I was talking about is the effect of media, propaganda and the widespread of certain trends in the world, like even if the person is 100% heterosexual in their orientation, when they see what’s going on out there they think that it’s ok to experiment.
I totally believe that some people are born homosexual, whether or not they should practice their homosexuality is another issue. But I also believe that the majority (I’m generalizing) are doing it because it’s “trendy” and “like totally awesome!!”
And yes, homosexuality has been present since the beginning of time, I just find it odd how it decided to “come out” now in the time of globalization.

21 January, 2007 02:26  
Blogger secretdubai said...

But I also believe that the majority (I’m generalizing) are doing it because it’s “trendy” and “like totally awesome!!”

I just don't see this. Especially in this part of the world. Regardless of Will & Grace, homosexuality throughout the Middle East (and even the West) is reviled, stigmatised and downright illegal.

Now I can accept that seeing positive images of homosexuality in the media may empower existing, closeted homosexuals to express themselves. One may describe that as "influence". But no way are young straight Arab men starting to screw one another because Will looks cool on Will & Grace, or because Queer As Folk is such a hip programme. It just does not work that way.

Because apart from anything, nothing is so greatly promoted by Western media than heterosexual behavious. Baywatch, MTV, Miss Universe, Fashion TV - if anything, the media is inspiring horny young Arab males towards heterosexual practice by advertising young women to them.

And yes, homosexuality has been present since the beginning of time, I just find it odd how it decided to “come out” now in the time of globalization.

Maybe because for the first time ever, in certain countries, "sodomy" is no longer a crime? So people don't have to lie and hide it?

I honestly don't know why the world has always been so terrified of homosexuality. I think probably because it is seen as an aberration or a weakness, something "unmanly". I can only liken it to left-handed people, who up until living memory were seen as "sinister" and unlucky and forced to change their hand dominance over, often with permanent impairment to other brain functions such as language and speech ability.

But like homosexuality, left-handedness is just a quirk of biology, an accident of birth.

21 January, 2007 02:38  
Anonymous Wicked Commentator said...

It is a shame because instead of taking the beneficial aspects of what the West can provide, we chose to take their bad things such as drugs, alcohol and ideas of homosexuality.

Although in all fairness, it is not the entire fault of the West. I believe that there are two things:

1) The parent: In some cases, you will have the mother who over pampers or a father that abuse the child. This will create psychological damages that will have terrible results. One of these results that could occur is that the child will susceptible to delusions such as homosexuality.

2) The Education System: It is because of the failure to provide Sex Education, how would you expect them to know about STDs and hormones. I am sorry to say this, but if there is no effort to start educating the people about these kind of things then we would continue to have sexually confused people.

21 January, 2007 04:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey did camel shagging also come for the west ? the guy in RAK that "made love to a camel" didn't even have a TV to watch and get ideas from. ... anyway once Dubai realise that they have gays , they will start "Gay City" the freedom to create " ! that would be great I will hang out at the lesbian corner. i am sure the girls in black sometime have a munch... i mean muff

21 January, 2007 06:47  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The “west” however, and to be specific, the USA, are influencing their own societies/people through their own media, that being gay is cool and is “like totally awesome!!”."

That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Western media has done its part in showing gays and lesbians are part of their societies, but in no way do shows say, "hey, it's so awesome to be gay that you should try it too!"

The truth of the matter is, gays and lesbians are discriminated against everywhere, even in, believe it or not, the United States. Yes, they are free to come out and be who they are, but they're still considered second class citizens and there's a huge part of the population that wants nothing but to take away their rights to love and have the rights that heterosexual couples get for coupling.

The one bright side to GN's repulsive article is that at least there is acknowledgement of homosexuality in the country now. Five years ago, this would not have been possible. And just a few hundred miles away, exist countries where homosexuals are executed in the oh so dignified ways like being thrown off the top of buildings or being buried in the ground and have stones thrown on their heads. So yeah, the guy in the article is an ignorant brute, but the rest of the comments here show that there's a lot more engagement on this topic here than there was just a few years ago. Hmm, maybe the Western media is "influencing" us, but helping people become more enlightened, or at least having people recognize that homosexuals are humans too is only a good thing, isn't it?

21 January, 2007 08:44  
Blogger Jassim said...

Really I dont see an excuse for gay'ness with str8 locals coz there's enough p*ssy available here and besids taco beats hot dog anyday.

SD the article is NOT about the restrictions here, that is not even relevant. Its about the media and I think the Western media do promote lesbianism and female bisexuality alot as a fashion thing AND no one can deny this.

21 January, 2007 09:07  
Blogger Jassim said...

Oh yeah and i spoke about this from my perspective as an Emirati here

21 January, 2007 09:15  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Think of it this way SD, I don’t know if you have kids but I am sure you can relate to this situation in a way or another: would you feel comfortable with your 12 years old kid watching on TV how youngsters of his age are relishing at smoking Marijuana or sniffing cocaine? I mean wouldn’t that make your kid more prone to ‘experimenting’ drugs?
You must acknowledge that homosexuality is an acquired behavior, and if this is the case, parents have the right to keep their kids away from being lured into ‘experimenting’ whatever they think is bad for them.

21 January, 2007 09:25  
Blogger secretdubai said...

we chose to take their bad things such as drugs, alcohol and ideas of homosexuality.

Where do you get the idea that these are Western ideas? Your own prophet put restrictions on alcohol (an Arabic word) 1400+ years ago, somewhat before satellite TV. Drugs - qat, opium - these come from the East, not the West. The idea of tolerance for or acceptability of homosexuality you can "blame" on us, but for me that's something to be proud of.

Wicked - I'm guessing you're a man - think about your own instincts. Can you honestly imagine any way you could be swayed or influenced into finding the opposite gender attractive just by seeing stuff on TV about it? I just don't see it.

I think the Western media do promote lesbianism and female bisexuality alot as a fashion thing AND no one can deny this.

I agree with you here. However, I don't regard this as real homosexuality. It's two young girls pretending to "get it on" in a nightclub to attract more young men, or to gain peer respect. It's not a permanent orientation change, it's a performance.

21 January, 2007 09:26  
Blogger Shafique said...

This type of writing/reasoning really annoys the **** out of me. I hope SD will permit my views even though I may be branded homophobic by some.

I do believe that homosexuality is a sin and is against nature’s plan for humanity. This view was formed by what Islam and other religions say, but is a view that has been upheld by all the critical research I have done. I know practicing homosexuals living happy lives together back in the UK, and count them as friends, and we have had open conversations about what my views on homosexuality are. People have the facility to choose their conjugal partners and I believe that we don’t have complete freedom to do what ultimately just pleases us (any couple soon learns that relationships require compromise).

The natural urge is not for monogamy – but I believe that for the benefit of society as a whole, monogamy is the best way to engage in a relationship. Long-term relationships are required for the balanced upbringing of children, and a monogamous relationship between the parents is the best way for this to happen. Therefore we sacrifice the ‘natural’ desire to go out and procreate with multiple people. (Also the debate between nature vs nurture in regards to sexual preference is still on-going, with voiciferous advocates on either side. I’m just pointing out that even if the ‘I was born that way’ view is true, it does not change my considered opinion on the acts.)

It is in this light that I believe that any homosexual urges should not be acted upon – and if they are they are as sinful as adultery and fornication in the eyes of my religion. Almost everyone I know in the UK who is not religious does not think fornication (sex outside marriage) is a sin – and yet me holding the view that their actions are sinful does not make them call me names – yet I feel uncomfortable that if I hold the same view for homosexuals, the tendency for some is to call me ‘homophobic’.

I do not think I am anti-fornicators or anti-homosexuals because I believe their actions are wrong.

The author of the article may have the same religion as me and similarly view the acts as sinful, but the scapegoating of the West is something that I distance myself from totally. The ‘English disease’ is one that is now tolerated in the ‘West’ – but it is one that is found in all societies as it is part of human nature. Islam/Christianity/Judaism just teaches it is one that should not be acted upon – just as we shouldn’t succumb to our desires to commit adultery, fornicate, lust after or steal/kill etc (all considered sinful).

Just my 2 penneth worth.

21 January, 2007 09:29  
Blogger secretdubai said...

You must acknowledge that homosexuality is an acquired behavior

No! It ISN'T. Honestly, I have known a lot of homosexuals - have you? It isn't something they choose. Very often, it isn't something they even want. It's something many of them fight, hide, feel shame about. They didn't learn it. They feel it from birth. If TV empowers them to express it (in my opinion a good thing) then whatever, but don't think that they "acquired" it any more than you learnt your (presumable) appetite for the opposite gender.

And Shafique thanks for your comments. We may disagree on certain areas, but I think we both agree on but the scapegoating of the West is something that I distance myself from totally..

21 January, 2007 09:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No! It ISN'T. Honestly, I have known a lot of homosexuals - have you? It isn't something they choose. Very often, it isn't something they even want. It's something many of them fight, hide, feel shame about. They didn't learn it. They feel it from birth."

SD, allow me to quote Freud’s input on this subject: "Historically, Freud and many others psychologists, particularly in psychoanalytic or developmental traditions, speculated that formative childhood experiences helped produce sexual orientation; as an example Freud believed that all human teenagers are predominantly homosexual and transition to heterosexuality in adulthood; those who remain homosexual as adults he believed had experienced some traumatic event that arrested their sexual development; however, he did believe all adults, even those who had healthy sexual development still retained latent homosexuality to varying degrees."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Nature_versus_nurture
You see the subject is still scientifically debatable, and while it is still so, I wouldn’t deny parents or educators the right to keep their children away from getting exposed to what is still deemed a controversial or confusing issue….
I second Shafique, western media has nothing to do with this, it is merely a parental, educational issue…

21 January, 2007 09:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well, I don't know how much of an evidence is this. But early in my residency I sat in on an assessment at the gender identity clinic of a 17 year old who is a son of a really busy parents. He was baby sat by their gay friends frequently, he first saw a child psychiatrist at the age 8 as he kept on telling hi parents he was gay. At that time, no concerns were reported in the assessment. On his second assessment at the age 17, he was already living a life of a gay man having sex with other boys, he however decided to go to the clinic as he wanted to ask if there is a chance of him changing. He was referred to a teen gays support group and was connected to a social worker who works at the gender identity clinic. 4 months ago and four years later, I met him at work shop for Interpersonal group psychotherapy as he has decided to become a psychologyst, and he told me that 1.5 years after that appointment when he entered the university he totally changed his orientation and now he has been with a girlfriend for just over 2 years.

I asked him if he could be bi. He said he went again to the gender identity clinic and felt that it was out of question. He felt that being surrounded by a group of gay men just confused him.

So exposure may cause some behavioural changes. This is only one story and God knows if he is being honest with him self to begin with.

21 January, 2007 09:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Shafique

"I do believe that homosexuality is a sin and is against nature’s plan for humanity. This view was formed by what Islam and other religions say, but is a view that has been upheld by all the critical research I have done."

Against nature's plan for humanity? Obviously if this opinion is influenced by religion then it would be what you believe to be your god's plan for humanity. And what is this supposed 'critical research' you have done - avoiding the sexually suggestive nature of a guy conducting 'critical research' on homosexuality which for some reason reminds me of this article: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33540 - if your comment is anything to judge by this research is amateurish, subjective heresay.

You think that your views will have you branded as homophobic. Well, you are; you acknowledge that even if someone was born 'that way' you would never be happy with them unless they chose to live celibate lives forever. You also know that unlike heterosexual fornicators who have the option of getting married and thus nulifying the 'sin', homosexuals do not have that option except for a few progressive countries. And even if they did get married there you still don't approve of 'homosexual acts' which means ideally for you, they would just be two chaste men or women living together. Without children.

So yes, regardless of your poor justifications, you are blinded by your religion and fear homosexuality. You may have strong faith but you certainly lack logic.

21 January, 2007 10:21  
Blogger Sex and Dubai said...

It really just boils down to the basic: Nature vs. Nurture.

Homosexuality although forbidden (Islamically that is) is common practice throughout the Middle East. There is no WAY anyone can deny that. We have plenty personal stories to recount in that respect outselves (coming soon).

The fact of the matter is, it's easy to put the blame on "The West"..again, its the case of the pot calling the kettle black.

21 January, 2007 11:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agree with you on this. Homosexuality has been around much before satellite television took over. The Turkish hamams it seems were a popular meeting place for gay men & women in this part of the world.

21 January, 2007 11:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It’s true that over here a guy can have “all you can get” of women, but he only gets to do that when he reaches a certain age and acquires certain resources.
Generally, boys finish school by the time they’re 17-20 on average, I’m sure they have urges that need to be fulfilled way before they turn 17. That’s where the oppression kids live in kick in and they start “doing” anything in their way. Same goes for some girls.
Some gay people are born gay, but I still believe that the majority is following it as a trend. True, there is discrimination against them almost everywhere, and yes they are humans too, but like SD said “But like homosexuality, left-handedness is just a quirk of biology, an accident of birth.”
It’s like there is a right rule which is the general case accepted and expected from everyone, and there is a crooked one. Like in Arabic, there is a قاعدة and there is a شاذ عن القاعدة.

21 January, 2007 12:48  
Anonymous milk sheikha said...

i was at latifa school for girls for 7 years. there were no lesbian students. i cannot speak for rashid school where my brother left after a few weeks after someone kept pulling a knife out on him. anything u hear about rashid school is TRUE.

government schools - as in the proper shitty government schools are where u find homosexual teens and boys being raped. go to ladies day at mamzar park if u want to see all the "boyatt" new generation of lesbian local girls.

21 January, 2007 14:33  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shaper 85,
Can you tell me why is it that till 1987 homosexuality was still considered by the American Psychiatric Association as a Mental Disorder? Were they really mistaken? What was the breakthrough in the realm of psychology that has pushed them to change their minds about it?
I hope you realize that the lieniency toward homosexuality in the west is a matter of political correctness nothing else. And I also hope that you are aware The Onion is a comical website…..
:)
Peace...

21 January, 2007 16:22  
Anonymous kochumanavalan said...

" I can only liken it to left-handed people..."

Sure. Left handed peole can write with their left hands. But try as I might, I just can't make babies with a penis and an anus. Some'un's got the formula backwards.

(Nature vs. nurture? Aleyamma from Alapuzha can do that too. Except she's one straight lady.)

21 January, 2007 18:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Dubai is probably the best place (outside of San Fransico) to be an openly gay man. You can hold hands, kiss, hug, walk arm-in-arm and (short of hump him in the street) engage in all sorts of public intimacy with your men friends in ways that would get you thrashed in many parts of the west (in spite of Will&Grace).

Homosexuality is not an important issue for me. But I think that any culture that permits public intimacy between men but discourages public intimacy between men and women, does not need to look as far as the "west" to find the "causes" of homosexuality.

21 January, 2007 18:38  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Everyone very interesting topic you got here. Has anyone one heard of the Opium Wars? Perhaps not ...

21 January, 2007 21:40  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL at anon 1838. Yes, men here do hold hands and hug and all, but that is culturally acceptable and is not a homosexual act.

I agree, I have heard that gay men were accepted in the bedouin societies way before the settled down. I guess now people are torn between religion and thier inner beliefs.

Dubai Jazz:" I hope you realize that the lieniency toward homosexuality in the west is a matter of political correctness nothing else" sad but most likely true.

Although i is claimed that Toronto is a diverse city that has the second highets population of homosexuals, I think people here still have issues with the topic, it comes up again and again and they are made fun of even by professionals. I guess if they still need to have their gay parade, they still feel the need to be aknowledged.
And let me tell you, these parades are the biggest turn off to anybody who has mixed feelings about homosexuality. Nudity, disinhibition and exhibitionism. Not a pleasant sight at all.

21 January, 2007 23:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At the last anon. If two arab men walk down the street holding hands in Dubai, no one will think anything more about the scene and ignore it.

But if two western men done that in Dubai...it will definately turn heads, coz like the last commenter said, somethings are culturally acceptable in this society, but that doesnt mean people here are unnaware of western norms and attitutes.

22 January, 2007 00:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dubai Jazz - the APA removed the designation in 1973, not 1987. Get your facts straight (excuse the pun).

Also, they removed it because they realized there was no scientific basis for calling it a disorder, and that in fact, "reparative" therapy caused egregious harm.

22 January, 2007 06:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@DubaiJazz

The APA actually removed homosexuality as a mental illness in 1973, not 1987.

This move was a result of research by people such as Evelyn Hooker and Alfred Kinsey which spanned decades and revealed major misconceptions on the perception of homosexuality and sexuality in general. The APA, with this new knowledge had to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder because it no longer fit their definition of it, and even more recently, they have taken a stand against 'therapy' to 'cure' gay people.

Do you really consider the west to 'lenient' towards homosexuals? They might be tolerated but face hurdles everyday that a heterosexual person would not. The more accepting people have become is not because of politics but because gay people are more visible and more gay people are coming out of the closet, showing everyone else that any type of peron can be gay without fitting some stereotype.

22 January, 2007 08:12  
Blogger Taunted said...

Well let's face it, any hole's a goal in the dusty city...

22 January, 2007 09:50  
Blogger Shafique said...

To Shaper:

When I said homosexuality was against nature’s plan for humanity, I was referring to the simple biological fact that gay unions do not result in children. All the other benefits of companionship etc can be found in a heterosexual relationship.

My critical research involved reading widely at religious, secular and academic papers on the subject. And as I have gay friends it involved my conversations with them. I also have friends who are fornicators and who lie and steal (from the tax man, insurance companies, from their own company’s etc). In all these cases I condemn actions but it does not mean I hate the people (they wouldn’t be friends).

There is debate raging about nature vs nurture concerning sexual preference. I know enough to say that there are differing opinions in the scientific community – and therefore I am naturally skeptical about those who hold strong views either way and are blinkered to the opposing arguments (eg. All pro-gay are evil and misguided and all who condemn the acts are religiously influenced fanatics).

I have argued that this becomes irrelevant if you view the +choice+ of who you sleep with as part of the overall regulation of one’s sex life. I choose to only have one partner – I could very well argue that my nature or my nurture would naturally cause me to ‘need’ to sleep with multiple women. My wife would not buy this argument – so I can’t use it. Similarly one can choose to not succumb to the homosexual urges – which strangely aligns me with many official Church position on homosexuality.

I don’t buy the argument that we need to allow ourselves complete freedom to fulfil all our urges and desires. We have laws to regulate these things urges (i.e. I am not free to fulfil my urge to take the Ferrari parked downstairs!) and we have moral guidelines that put society above the individual – eg. Marriage.

Finally, thank you for proving my point that some people will brand me as homophobic – I just wonder whether you consider me fornicatorphobic, robberphobic etc as well. :)

22 January, 2007 09:58  
Blogger Frances said...

SDd
What I would really like is to be presented with a practicising homosexual that "chose" to be homosexual after seeing it "advertised" on TV. I don't mean someone that was already gay but only had the courage to come out after seeing it on TV.


With all due respect, it is not a case of a heterosexual male, watching homosexual activities on television and then deciding to become homosexual. The damage is done in childhood when a child is subjected to watching homosexual activities on TV, this is the time when the brain is developing, and this will stay in the subconscious and may affect them in later life. The way we turn out is all due to our upbringing.

22 January, 2007 11:58  
Anonymous Bukowski said...

Wicked Commentator said...

It is a shame because instead of taking the beneficial aspects of what the West can provide, we chose to take their bad things such as drugs, alcohol and ideas of homosexuality.


Or, on the other hand, you can see drugs and alcohol - which SD has already pointed out are not exclusivly western concepts - as having inspired some of the greatest art, literature and music in the history of mankind. A fair bit of which, by the way, was created by homosexuals... But of course, such things are haram, so let's just close our minds to the works of Byron, Michaelangelo, Mozart, Jimi Hendrix, Jack Kerouac... You make your choices, and I'll make mine - unless you are lucky enough to live in Dubai, where more men walk hand in hand than I have seen in any other city in the world, and where the munificent powers that be make all those difficult decisions about what I'm allowed to read, watch or think for me.

22 January, 2007 12:13  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey there sd, for the sake of your own sanity and blood pressure levels you should do what I have done and just stop reading the local papers altogether. I mean really, what is the point of subjecting yourself to the consistent piss-poor quality of local reporting. Even the international news, which is just lifted from real news bureaus I find myself being skeptical about due to the big brother effect.

Seriously, save some trees and just bypass the drivel, log on to some news sites that have some integrity, literate staff and freedom of expression.

I do understand the frustration you must feel when you read such articles, I mean where do you start with something like that. Why start at all?

My fight has left me!!

22 January, 2007 12:34  
Blogger secretdubai said...

I had to censor a comment for legal reasons (even though it wasn't offensive, and to the best of my knowledge is true). Sorry Anon, here is the rest of your comment:

Anonymous@ 20 January, 2007 19:07 said...
As some one who went to school in GCC, I would just like to emphasise some issues.

For some weird reason, although homosexuality is outwardly offcially not tolerated at all. Homosexual jokes and comments are extremely common. Further to that you can split homosexuality in two, the doer and the done. Basically the penetrator and penetrated. In some circles the penetrator is not even considered homosexual.

So its very common for someone to tell his friends, enemies or whoever "I will fuck you". I dont mean in the western sense, the locals will know what I mean. To translate it literally it mean I will penetrate you. Its like the penetrator is the guy with power, and the penetrated is the real homosexual, the shamed one. Its fucked up if you ask me.
Its basically like a prison culture. The penetrated is the female, the faminine.

22 January, 2007 13:47  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

"...Just find me that one man, and I will reconsider my opinions thus far."

SD @ 20 January, 2007 22:41

Apparantly, SD, you only ought to look as far as your comments in "Go West". You seem to be saying that homosexual tendencies are DEVELOPED due to segregation. Hmmm, if I were to judge by your yardstick, it seems your claim is as silly as people developing homosexual tendencies by watching it on TV.

In any event, I am glad you can admit that homosexuality is MOSTLY developed rather than genetic. Bestiality is a very DEVELOPED feeling as well; absolutely nothing "genetic" about that either. So is pedophilia, another developed feeling.

I think a lot of people confuse homosexuality with a genuine biological complication of male and female reproductive organs/hormones (or lack thereof). In the former case, it is PURELY a developed phenomenon (and whether you like it or not, Television does influence people. How come no one has problems with how violence on Television affects people?). In the latter case of hermaphrodites, there is a CLEAR biological problem, which requires treatment and respect for the individual.

Anyways, sticking to the topic, and I am not trying to defend what the gentleman in the news item i saying, why is it hard to grasp that TV does influence such behavior?

22 January, 2007 14:05  
Blogger secretdubai said...

I am glad you can admit that homosexuality is MOSTLY developed rather than genetic.

I don't admit that at all. I believe homosexuality is generally 100% innate. Homosexual behaviour practiced by heterosexuals in certain circumstances (such as a male prison) is more of a temporary phenomenon, and those doing it would most probably not identify as gay.

I know you desperately want to think that homosexuality is some product of the West and the media, but it's not, it's a natural instinct for millions of people across the world, and there is no evidence to suggest anyone's gender orientation has been changed by media pressure.

22 January, 2007 14:18  
Blogger secretdubai said...

why is it hard to grasp that TV does influence such behavior?

Because neither you nor anyone else has shown any evidence that it does so. You can't just keep making this same claim with nothing to back it up. Just because you want it to be true doesn't mean it is.

22 January, 2007 14:20  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

SD-

Contrary to your suggestions, I DO NOT think that homosexuality is a "some product of the West". Homosexuality is found in all regions, all races, all religions, and since time immemorial. This is also true for fornication, beastiality, pedophilia, adultery and other sexual feelings.

What I do not understand is why do you think it is "natural" to have gay tendencies? Perhaps a definition of "natural" may help? If by "natural" you mean that it is related to genetics then I would beg to differ. If such is what you did not mean, then it leaves you no other option, but to submit that "natural" to you means DEVELOPMENT.

I think S.N. makes a compelling case to explain about children growing up and developing tendencies. And as another contributor suggested, male-male and female-female union does not fit "nature" (hmmm, is that the root of the word NATURAL?) because there can be no reproduction.

Furthermore, there is no genetic evidence of "homosexuality" and if someone someday did hoodwink you into believing it then please remember that genetic data is carried over by replication. Since homosexuals cannot reproduce with one another, such an orientation CANNOT multiply! Therefore, homosexuality is damned to die out on its own.

Finally, the West is not the only media/society promoting homosexual behavior. There are some eastern countries, too. Try looking far east. In fact, you can find some tribes in Afghanistan who promote and live in it. The present governor of Kandahar (Qandhaar), Gul Agha Sherzai, is married to a boy of 17 years (he married him 4 years ago). And I hate to inform you that Gul Agha is part of the Karzai set up that the West implanted in Afghanistan...

Oops another Western plot! just kidding hehe :)

22 January, 2007 14:41  
Anonymous Bukowski said...

Dubai Paddy said...

Hey there sd, for the sake of your own sanity and blood pressure levels you should do what I have done and just stop reading the local papers altogether. I mean really, what is the point of subjecting yourself to the consistent piss-poor quality of local reporting. Even the international news, which is just lifted from real news bureaus I find myself being skeptical about due to the big brother effect.


Unfortunately mate, some of us poor bastards have actually been shipped out to WRITE this drivel, forgoing the ethical considerations that drove us in to journalism in the first place, in exchange for some sunshine and a nice car. And, having got out here and realised it was a terrible fucking mistake, we find ourselves trapped by our slave labour contracts and "all the rent up front" appartments, which mean we can't afford to leave the country or even change jobs to something less morally offensive than writing government propaganda.

So, give us a break eh? WE know the papers are crap here - we'd make them better if we were allowed.

(a little off topic, but I hope you'll forgive me SD)

22 January, 2007 14:45  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Frances said:
The damage is done in childhood when a child is subjected to watching homosexual activities on TV, this is the time when the brain is developing, and this will stay in the subconscious and may affect them in later life.

I couldn't agree more....:)

22 January, 2007 14:56  
Anonymous kochumanavalan said...

Of course TV can (without necessarily having to; people still have their personal moral compasses to answer to) influence a person's behaviour.

Notice the subtle shift in wording introduced by Al Republican. Is homosexuality simply a matter of "behaviour"?

22 January, 2007 15:04  
Blogger Your Man in Dubai said...

the comments on the end of the GN article. Even worse than the article its self! God help them if this is the way they think!

22 January, 2007 15:36  
Blogger Earthbound Misfit said...

Woo Hoo the Blame Game once again.

Since they have gone ahead and blamed the western media for homosexuality, can I blame them for: Breeding Terrorists, intolerance, hypocrisy, sexism, racism and good ol idiocy.

22 January, 2007 17:11  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have several people to reply to:

@Shafique

"When I said homosexuality was against nature’s plan for humanity, I was referring to the simple biological fact that gay unions do not result in children."

You view nature as very simplistic if you think thats all it is to it. Sure one part of nature is reproduction but so much more happens that is natural.

Show me one objective piece of research that argues homosexuality is a choice. Thats right, there aren't any, so god knows what you're reading.

You blur the lines between what nature allows but society restricts. Homosexuality in society is, for the most part, frowned upon but as society is dynamic, this view is changing, starting first in the West. But, like much of the Middle East and other behind cultures and societies, this acceptance will take longer to achieve but in the long term it seems that sex and sexuality will eventually be irrelevant in society.


@Frances

"The damage is done in childhood when a child is subjected to watching homosexual activities on TV, this is the time when the brain is developing, and this will stay in the subconscious and may affect them in later life. "

Wow your comment was amusing. Its a good thing you're in the fashion industry where you don't really need to think with logic. Why, I can think of those ancient greek chidren watching TV and then some becoming homosexual! As Al Republican said, homosexuality has been around forever and everywhere, probably the only useful thing he has said.

22 January, 2007 20:36  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ Al Republican
"Furthermore, there is no genetic evidence of "homosexuality" and if someone someday did hoodwink you into believing it then please remember that genetic data is carried over by replication. Since homosexuals cannot reproduce with one another, such an orientation CANNOT multiply! Therefore, homosexuality is damned to die out on its own."

You are most probably right on the fact that there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is rooted in your DNA. As far as I remember, homosexuals themselves do not like the idea of a "flawed blueprint". Such a "faulty" gene would reinforce the stigma of a disease - that could/should be cured by some genetic engineering. Moreover that would mean that expecting parents could one day choose to abort their unborn child if a genetic test could prove that trait in their child.

"...please remember that genetic data is carried over by replication. Since homosexuals cannot reproduce with one another, such an orientation CANNOT multiply!..."

There is nothing scientific in that, except for the fact that homosexuals cannot "sexually" reproduce (one day, they will clone themselves...wait and see).

In genetics, some traits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recessive) will only become "visible"/express themselves if both parents are carriers of the gene. In other words, the parents are "unaffected carriers" and their offspring have a 25% probability to get that trait.

Since historically, homosexuals were encouraged to live a "normal life", you could have millions of unaffected bearers fornicate out there...what about you al republican?

22 January, 2007 21:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well Homosexuality has been around forever. Wherever there are humans, there will be homosexuals. And I mean everywhere. By everywhere I include even a gathering of homophobes.

I believe homosexulaity has been in the national psyche in a longer period of time here than even in Europe. I am not an expert in this but I believe victorian england didnt even recognise such a thing as lesbians, However I stand to be corrected on this point.

It is true Homosexuals recently have been more visible, and acceptable. There is no doubt Western countries have been at the forefront of this acceptance. By this I mean they have been accepted as a minority or a group that is not just tolerated, but accepted as an equal fabric in the mosaic of society with legitimate concerns, interests, and the right to lobby and be vigorously assertive in persuit of those interests.

The West being a culture that is extraordinarily resourcefull, and dynamic has pretty much monopolised the airwaves. What makes news in the west pretty much makes the news in other parts of the world. Their culture slowly but surely filters down to other cultures, wholly or in part.

Gay culture has thoroughly been integrated in the DNA of western societies (after a bit of sterilisation). All things fashion and the arts come with a heavy dose of gay culture. There aint nothing you can do about it.

If Dubai wants to excel in the service economy than you will simply have to accomodate it somehow. I mean look at the adverts for Dolce and Gabbana, tons of homosexulas overtones there.

Would also like to say that over here, like just about everywhere in the middle east the policy has always been dont ask, and dont tell. I dont know where people get information about people being thrown off the mountains. it simply does not happen, I am sorry to correct you.

Just to go off topic slightly, I read somwhere the fad of men to be muscly and defined, and all that metrosexual stuff is an example of gay culture that has also filtered down. I also stand to be corrected here.

on another note, if what annoys you is not gays per se, but actually the act of their sexual acts, then i have news for you. I dont know how to put this without appearing crude, but I will do my best.

You see that act that Homosexuals like to do, these days its getting major traction among heterosexuals i.e between men and women. I dont know but it seems like a fad or something, lots of people are at least trying it. It seems as common as oral sex.

Well God help us :)

PS: SD I doubt you need to worry about legal action from the comments you deleted. You might be in trouble in a thousand other ways, but actually being sued, never! :)

22 January, 2007 23:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shaper said:
"Wow your comment was amusing. Its a good thing you're in the fashion industry where you don't really need to think with logic. "
I believe that so far in the course of this discussion, we were all trying to have a meaningful exchange of ideas, where everybody refrains from direct personal taunting. SO please let's keep it that way....

23 January, 2007 00:15  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@DubaiJazz

Oh sorry, I forgot that you also believe that TV has caused homosexuality through the ages. MY bad.

23 January, 2007 05:58  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Homosexuality has been scientifically documented in 1500 species of animals, including dolphins, beetles, bats, orangutans and swans. If there was any argument that homosexuality exists naturally, this would be it. In fact, a few years ago, in Central Park zoo, there was a male penguin couple that refused to mate with females despite several efforts by the park authorities to help them over to the other team.

Obviously there is some plan for having homosexuality in nature, otherwise natural selection would have wiped these cases out a long time ago.

Why anyone would "choose" to be gay when there is so much hate against homosexuality in this world is beyond me. Nobody likes to be discriminated against, and in some countries, come under the threat of execution, because they feel like it or watched a Western TV show. So get over yourselves and your "research" from so-called religious publications. The Bible advocated slavery and stoning adulterers to death. It also prescribes severe punishments for people who work on the Sabbath and eat shellfish. So stop picking and choosing the passages from your wonderful texts to justify your bigotry and your vile hate, and get over yourselves.

And who uses the word "fornicators" anymore anyway? What is this, the 18th century?

23 January, 2007 08:21  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey there sd, the sheer amount of response to this is amusing, you seem to have hit a social nerve.

firstly, i dont see what all the fuss is about, homosxuality is an act between two (or more) consenting adults and if it isn't then it is not homsexuality, so let people get on with their lives. The bigots out there seem to have a lot to say which makes me think that hey seem to spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about the ‘’fornicators’’, whats all that about, eh?

Bukowski……..

When I read your response to my ‘’piss poor’’ journalism remark, my first reaction was ‘’poor sod’’. But then I started to think about what you said, you are a journalist, right? Most journalists tend to investigate things, do some research, part of the job ya? Well if you are a journalist then how the hell did you end up agreeing to move acroos the globe to work in a country that has no freedom of speech, seriously, re-inforcing the ‘’piss poor’’ remark…. classic……

You don’t see any out of work expatriate pig farmers over here do ya!!!

23 January, 2007 09:09  
Blogger Jassim said...

The comments have gone too off topic and is boring now. We all already know what relgion says about gays and what liberals says about gays. So how many more times are all you commentors going to repeat this same stale argument over and over? Now back to the original issue...


SD said..

However, I don't regard this as real homosexuality. It's two young girls pretending to "get it on" in a nightclub to attract more young men, or to gain peer respect. It's not a permanent orientation change, it's a performance.

But its still homo-sexual in a sense because its two people of the same sex kissing and 'getting it on'. Watch Z Arabia or MTV for a few hours and watch how many Lesbian references are made in the music videos. Plus Buffy, ER, Scrubs, Boston Legal etc all have lesbian characters. In other words the Media is saying to young girls that its cool to be 'gay' or sexually ambiguous.

Despite what i wrote before on the different blogs I really do not have a problem with natural born gays, but Bashy does have a point when you look at all the evidence.

It is like what you see in the porn movies has now become normal for mainstream western media. I am a father and for me this makes me worried.

23 January, 2007 09:56  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paddy said:
Well if you are a journalist then how the hell did you end up agreeing to move acroos the globe to work in a country that has no freedom of speech

Well...assuming that Bukowski is a journalist, and that we live in a country that lacks freedom of speech as you have suggested, then I think he should be commended for opting to work in this country.
Remember that journalists, photojournalists, reporters and correspondents enjoy their work more in challenging enviournement…countries of crises, disputes, rigid regulations and so on…it is where you need the courage to take to the streets, touch on taboos, unravel secrets and ciscumvent the rigid guidelines of freedom of speech…

23 January, 2007 10:58  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

"Show me one objective piece of research that argues homosexuality is a choice."

Shaper85 @ 22 January, 2007 20:36

Show us one objective piece of research that it is NOT a choice rather a genetic issue. But, such line of reasoning is cyclical and pretty the "chicken and egg" syndrome.

As I have maintained throughout: Feelings are all about human development of emotions. Once this is much is clear then a lot of this will make sense. Falling in love with someone is indicative of this fact. There is nothing "genetic" about falling in love with another person. Be that other person even a person of the same gender. It is a feeling that is DEVELOPED!

Once this much is agreeable then the only bone of contention that remains is how far are we, as human, willing to go to accept all kinds of such developed feelings? OK, so society in the Middle East hasn't mentally matured to your likeness. But this is exactly where such dogmatism exhibited by people like yourself plunges you into an abyss.

Homosexuality is as old as Beastiality. So should we allow that, too? Let's just say you have not matured mentally to accept that humans can have sexual intercourse with animals. You can certainly find examples in the animal kingdom of different species having sexual intercourse with one another as well! Have we also not matured enough to accept pedophilia, Sir? What is wrong with an adult falling in love with a child under puberty? Who or what law are you trying to define here?

This is where NATURE comes in, my friend. These are NATURAL LAWS based on the dynamics and make-up of the human. When you try to argue that "reproduction is just one of the thing and not the only focal role of humans" then you are being as silly as "breathing is just one of the things and not the only..." I hope you get the point!

Reproduction is an INTEGRAL characteristics of a specimen and anything or anyone breaking this law is operating as a fringe element. This is exactly why homosexuality was a vice since time immemorial, just as beastiality was. It is fanning your desires to do something that is unnatural and can be easily overcome with counseling.

If you are going to keep your mind open to all kinds of tangential ideas then I guess one day your off-springs will be mentally developed enough to promote beastiality and pedophilia. Just as someone said that gays are going to resort to cloning.

The point is where do we draw the lines as human beings? I mean already we can see people question why "fornication" is a vice! I guess adultery and cheating on spouses is pretty natural, too? After all, it has been happening since time immemorial as well! So now we want to develop mentally to the level where we allow swinging and adultery?

You are only fooling yourselves with such limbless argumentation.

23 January, 2007 11:56  
Blogger Samawel said...

Thanks SD for standing up to bigotry. It's good that there's a significant amount of bloggers here in the emirates with a good idea of what makes a non-heterosexual a non-heterosexual and the decency to say so.

23 January, 2007 12:14  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm somewhere, somehow, they told me, homosexuality came from Africa to the west? lol!

23 January, 2007 13:22  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dubai Jazz…

‘’Remember that journalists, photojournalists, reporters and correspondents enjoy their work more in challenging enviournement…countries of crises, disputes, rigid regulations and so on…it is where you need the courage to take to the streets, touch on taboos, unravel secrets and ciscumvent the rigid guidelines of freedom of speech…’’


which local paper do you read?


Al repulican…

Please stop using homosexuality, beastiality and paedophillia in the same sentence, there are some MAJOR differences between them.

And Al, the one thing I hate more than a bigot is a bloody long winded bigot, please stick to boring people on your own blog……of course, if you did that then no one would get the opportunity (I don’t know if opportunity is the right word) to be subjected to your crap.

23 January, 2007 16:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Al Republican

Your argument is flawed because you insist on comparing true vices such as beastiality and pedophilia where at least one member involved in such a act does not or cannot give consent. An animal cannot give sexual consent to a human, and a statutory child cannot legally give consent (some places allow sexual contact beween minors within a certain age range).
If two or more adult men or women give consent to have sexual relations, what business is it of yours to have any say what goes on in their bedroom? It isn't any of your business at all, so stop trying to justify your misguided bigotry with false comparisons.

I agree that love is a developed emotion but the attaction that leads to one or both sexes is something that cannot be controlled and is a purely natural occurence.

23 January, 2007 16:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dubai Paddy said:
“which local paper do you read?”

it doesn’t matter which local newspaper I am reading, however, and I think you will have to agree with me on this, there has been a significant progress in the freedom of the press in Dubai during the last 5 years….and it’s partially attributable to the efforts of by journalists, westerners and non-westerners …

23 January, 2007 17:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ugh. SD, hurry up and put up a one of your funny poems about Dubai so this debate can end. We'll be reading about this for years if you don't...

23 January, 2007 18:28  
Blogger Frances said...

It doesn’t matter what
causes homosexuality and it may be many things. But the only thing that we do know is that, it is unnatural. We were put on this earth to breed! That will be impossible for two men to accomplish. So let’s not carry on trying to find the reason, let’s just hope they stay in their closet.

23 January, 2007 19:52  
Blogger secretdubai said...

We were put on this earth to breed! That will be impossible for two men to accomplish. So let’s not carry on trying to find the reason, let’s just hope they stay in their closet.

Amen. And infertile people and post-menopausal people too. Because they really have no purpose on this earth do they? And as such, much as surely be as offensive to the rest of us healthy fertile people as homosexuals are.

In fact maybe it would be best if we just kindly euthanased them all: the gays, the barren and the elderly. Then the rest of us could get down to the real business of humanbeinghood: breeding.

Loathesome moron.

23 January, 2007 20:23  
Blogger Frances said...

SecretDubai said.....
Loathesome moron.


Object!

23 January, 2007 21:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You still insult people for disagreeing with you, and you still use the same words as if you are the only one with a human mind!
Bravo!

23 January, 2007 22:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Forgot to say that even if the sentence ”We were put on this earth to breed!” hurts you, or anyone; this still shouldn't make you lose your temper...

23 January, 2007 23:12  
Blogger i, Bobo said...

First -

"Can you tell me why is it that till 1987 homosexuality was still considered by the American Psychiatric Association as a Mental Disorder?"

Actually, the APA removed homosexuality from the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973 -- that was 34 years ago.

34 years ago the APA removed homosexuality from the list of mental disorders. That's almost two whole generations -- which is interesting because in the last 5 years (which is what, like a quarter of a generation?) at least one person in the UAE has been charged with "being a sorcerer." Aren't you even remotely concerned that an employee of the same government that still charges people with witchcraft is accusing the "western media" of being the cause of someone's sexual orientation? Can you grasp why somebody coming from another culture, a culture that values reason and scientific method might assume you're a couple slices short of a full loaf?

Second -

Who the hell cares who sleeps with who? Why is it anyone's business other than the two (or three, if you're lucky) people involved?

Why do you care if two guys want to have sex? How does it even remotely affect your life? Is just knowing that two boys are out there kissing going to somehow start the end of the world as we know it?

And just how is this even remotely the result of media exposure? If that's the case, was my Grandfather right? Will someone become a heroin addict from listening to rock & roll? Will masturbating actually send a guy to hell, make his palms hairy, or weaken his eyesight? Can a woman get pregnant from a toilet seat? If you have the measles should you be bled with leeches?

Morons.

24 January, 2007 00:41  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every part of human body has an intended purpose...a hand is meant to grab and hold things, for example, an eye is meant to see.

Anus, likewise, has its own intended purpose. Lets keep things natural.

24 January, 2007 00:59  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You wtote:
You might find it's actually the total segregation of young men and women until marriage that leads to horny straight males "experimenting" with
one another

mmm... by your argument above, Europe, with so much mixing of the sexes, should be void of Gays.
Not so long ago, Homosexuality was a crime in the UK (Oscar Wild was jailed for it). Today, after a slow but determined effort, especially by those in film and theatre, it has become not just widely accepted and normalised (encouraged??) but it is almost chic to be gay. This is Western democracy at work. If enough people want it /accept it, it becomes legal. The question I want to raise is, how long before enough people want to decriminalise paedophilia /incest before it becomes the norm? Surely some acts are taboo and must remain so.

24 January, 2007 01:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm so sick of the argument that if you accept homosexuality between consenting adults then you're a horrible person who sooner or later is going to be defending pedophiles and letting them victimize children. What a stupid thing to think. Nobody likes a pedophile and personally I think they should be locked away forever because they can't be rehabilitated or "cured"

24 January, 2007 05:00  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

”Actually, the APA removed homosexuality from the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973 -- that was 34 years ago.?”

Well.. here’s wikipedia speaking:
“Homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1987 by the American Psychiatric Association,”
you may avail yourself of the link also…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Behavior_modification

Mind you, 87 is not long a time ago, I mean for heaven sake we were able to tread the moon in 69…I am still insistent that this removal is a matter of political correctness…nothing else.

”Who the hell cares who sleeps with who? Why is it anyone's business other than the two (or three, if you're lucky) people involved?”

I personally don’t care, and as I said, it’s parental exducational matter, I won’t even consider it legal….

”Morons”

as we say in Arabic ‘the pan leaks its content’

24 January, 2007 08:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Secret Dubai said:
“In fact maybe it would be best if we just kindly euthanased them all: the gays, the barren and the elderly.”

by including the ‘barren’, you have unknowingly refuted your own argument:
remember that infertility is considered an illness, which is medically curable in most of the cases…on the other hand, you ferociously refuse to admit that homosexuality is an illness….

24 January, 2007 08:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike was a guy with a secret friend

Dorothy was her name, it came out in the end

bigots crawled from under rocks as they always do

Al, jassem, frances and too many anons, I’m talking about you

mike trawled through 87 posts hoping to find

supportive comments from those with open minds

bestiality was a word he saw time and time again

he loved animals but he fell in love with men

why would people think these two are the same

what train of thought would apportion such blame

to media, the west, all the old prejudices did appear

apparently watching mtv turns us all qu**r

mike sighed as he read feeling despair

human kind is buggered, there are cretins everywhere

mike believed in karma, he also felt quite bitter

so he hoped every bigot ‘’breeder’ had a poof in their litter

not the sensitive balanced soul that mike had always been

but someone much more ‘’colourful’’, a great screaming queen

24 January, 2007 09:28  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

shaper85-

It is encouraging that you are at least civil while exchanging ideas. Firstly, I think my parallels with beastiality and pedophilia are completely relevant (again, who decides what is the "correct" age for a person to be able to give consent?). If you want to bring in consent as a precursor to such acts then please remember that consent by 2 adults to do something unnatural is not an argument in the least bit.

In a particular case in Germany, 2 adult males consented to dismember one of the adults body parts and eat it eventally ending the dismembering by one of the participants killing the other. There are many more cases I can talk of, but I hope this much will at least prove that "2 adults consent" is not a critereon neither a convincing call to legalize something that is unnatural. Also that 2 consenting adults CAN be wrong. In the case of a married man/woman cheating on his spouse with another adult, you find another compulsive case for why 2 consenting adults can get it wrong.

Another argument presented is that why care what people do in their beds. Well, as long as they keep it in their own beds it's all good! The moment such tangential practices start coming out in the open then it does become a problem for society. This is a whole new debate in itself. I am very aware that present day Europeans and some Americans (there is still hope in America, albeit in the wrong hands!) believe that there should be no control in this regard.

The choice is for society to make. The European society has made its choice. If anyone believes in God and in His Scriptures and submits that laws are only for Allah to make then choice is not the only criteria for some. The Bible talks of the people of Lot and even at the time when Prophet Lot sounded the warning bells to his nation, they gave all kinds of excuses (much better than ones given here). However, the judgement of God came to pass. The people of Lot were indeed destroyed. Now those who don't believe in God's Law can either interpret that as a disney story, and for those who know this incident as a matter of archaelogical fact, as pure coincidence.

The European/Western system has a lot that we Muslims appreciate. However, there are some things that really you could learn from our system. I guess that is not an option for most of you! There is a definite erosion of society and of moral values in Europe. This is leading to complicated and complex problems whose consequences the West is facing only now.

Time will indeed tell if you guys got it right though. May we all live that long, in sha Allah!

24 January, 2007 11:16  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two comments.

Any argument that calls for being for or against something in the name of religion cant be valid. Just because someone said its not right doesnt mean you need to enforce those values on them. Thats what I hate about the Middle East, lots of dogma, very little critical thinking. Would it be ok if I started a religion (and claim inspiration from God) that everyone could do whatever they wanted as long as it didnt hurt someone else...? Lets see that happen.

Secondly, to those who say homosexuality is wrong, whats it to you..? Stop interfering in others lives. Let them do what makes them happy, as long as they dont hurt anyone. What right do you have to say that youre right and someone else isnt. Geez..!!

If you feel that its your right to intervene, then I'd like to say that you breathing is wrong, and for the sake of being religiously right, you should hold your breath for a couple of hours or so.

Put that in yer pipe and smoke it.

24 January, 2007 15:23  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One more thing, people compare being homosexual and needing laws to govern them and compare it to being thieves, or robbers.

One is a moral sin. If I stole something, I hurt someone. If I kill someone, it hurts someone.

Being homosexual does NOT affect the people around you. If you want to compare anything, compare it to heterosexuality or masturbation. Either they all are sins or none are. And considering that almost 95% of males have sometime or other other jerked off, youre all sinners.

If anyone can explain why homosexuality is wrong when masturbation or heterosexuality isnt, (WITHOUT QUOTING RELIGION ie, by thinking for yourself) we can have a discussion.

To those who need to quote religion, I have this to say. Whatever you do, you'll find in most cases this is against someone's religion. Yours may be the "ONE TRUE RELIGION (tm)" in your eyes. Bur change your shades and you'll see its the same in theirs.

Live and let live.

24 January, 2007 15:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops.. third comment.

The following articles show that homosexual behaviour isnt always chosen..

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1389841,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/05/ngay05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/12/05/ixhome.html

Enjoy..

24 January, 2007 15:40  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ al-republican
"Show us one objective piece of research that it is NOT a choice rather a genetic issue. But, such line of reasoning is cyclical and pretty the "chicken and egg" syndrome."

Take a look at the links above.

@ anonymous@0132 (couldnt sleep..?)
"Today, after a slow but determined effort, especially by those in film and theatre, it has become not just widely accepted and normalised (encouraged??) but it is almost chic to be gay."

It's chic, unless you get your brains blown out by some religious nut who comes to your country and says that your ways are unacceptable to their bigoted views..

24 January, 2007 15:50  
Anonymous fellow atheist said...

Oh man, what a post-athon!

It is no one's business what someone's sexual preference is as long as those involved are all consenting adults.

Now, it is worth noting that science has proven that homosexuality is genetic (1 science vs 0 religion). Then, science also proved that a male can orgasm because of a sensitive bit in his anus. I don't want to get too technical here.. but why would man be created in a way that allows him to feel pleasure this way? I say (2 science vs 0 religion).

So, before you go off on people, think about how our bodies actually work.

For the record, I am not gay. I have many gay friends and I find people who talk about homosexuals like a subhuman race rather offending and excessively ignorant. Get a life.

24 January, 2007 16:39  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing really amazing... Millions of gays yet not a single one to defend their rights on this blog. Almost everyone who has commented (for or against) claim to have lot of gay friends yet not one of these have had the courage to post a comment. Or have I missed any comment. Or perhaps they have smelt a rat and refuse to take the bait?

24 January, 2007 19:17  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, Wikipedia provides conflicting reports on this APA thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology

Anyway, 1973 is the year that it was removed. Just go to the APA website and look for yourself.

Just wondering - why does the AMERICAN Psychiatric Association's opinion on this matter to you so much? Isn't this whole thing about how the West is corrupting our precious virgin babies?

24 January, 2007 22:52  
Blogger TwinTopaz said...

and that's 100th comment!!!

sorry ;)

25 January, 2007 11:28  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

Just when you all were shouting and screaming about media not fanning such illnesses, I come across this report on CNN.

Homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia/child-porn all in one! I rest my case! Keep denying the obvious!

Fellow atheist:

It's interesting that you found a "sensitive bit" somewhere in your anus! I have been shitting for a good 28 years (and I am sure everyone here has, too). Yet, I never recall having orgasms while dumping! Please do enlighten us where else you have found pleasure spots! 2000 points to you, brother!

25 January, 2007 11:50  
Blogger Earthbound Misfit said...

Don't you just love how Al Republican quotes western media and scientific studies as long as they support his narrow minded view.

But at the same time he loves dumping on the west at any given opportunity.

And since you and your lot love comparing homosexuality to paedophilia - Can you name who the world's most famous paedophile??

I'll give you a clue. He married her at 7 and consumated the marriage at 9 and justified it by saying that women mature at 9 (which brings us to a whole separate argument that if women mature at 9 then they are definitely superior to men and all that).

I can go on and on but then I will most probably be stoned/beheaded/shot/burnt etc etc.

Speaking of stoning. I guess, you believe that stoning adulters is fine as well.

25 January, 2007 13:28  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

Hahaha Earthbound Misfit, nice to see you lose your marbles!

Anyways, sleek try there :) Since I don't waste my breath on something that will obviously be censored by SD, I will suffice by saying that you do not have the foggiest when you talk about Ayesha (RA) and Rasulullah (SAW).

In any event, your comment provided a good laugh and the obvious frustration exhibited in your tongue-in-cheek response really made my day :)

25 January, 2007 14:40  
Blogger Earthbound Misfit said...

Al Republican,

NICE ONE.

That seems to be the argument of you and your kind.

Whenever someone points out an anomaly or discrepancy you and your kind use the whole "You don't understand or know the real story".

Unfortunately for your cretinous ass, I have read books by your own people, and I DO KNOW the whole friggin story.

So why don't you explain to all of us here, what circumstances/situation would justify sleeping with a 9 yr old girl???????

And don't even start on that she was an orphan excuse. If she was an orphan why not adopt her, epecially if you are old enough to be her grandfather.

Of course, somehow the west is to blame for all this as well, right??

Hypocritical scumbag.

25 January, 2007 15:54  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

Earthbound Misfit:

Orphan?!?! LOL!!! You REALLY don't have a friggin' clue (as you aptly put it) as to what you are talking about! So whose books have you been reading? I really hope you are clowning around!

Ayesha (RA) was the daughter of the first caliph of Islam (successor to the Prophet SAW after his death)! Clearly, she could not have been an orphan! Her mother's name was Umm Ruman who died much later.

Again, I wish I had the patience to tell you, but potty-mouths like yourself just argue for the sake of arguing and name-calling. I will conveniently deprive you of your little game.

And, yes, the West is again to blame for all of this: Had you spared yourself the nonsense of people like Pat Robertson and his ilk, you would have spared yourself this embarrassment. Dirty West :P

Don't grind your teeth, I am just joking :)

25 January, 2007 20:57  
Blogger secretdubai said...

The issue here is homosexuality and whether it is (a) a learned or "chosen" behaviour, and if so then (b) whether the western media is to blame for "promoting" it.

If we could return to that topic it would be preferable. Things have taken a tangent that I really can't safely publish very much more of.

25 January, 2007 21:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Media, the western media in particular is a very powerful. It can influence/manipulate its audience as it wants; denying this fact is a fallacy. Just as any talent or innate quality needs nurturing for the person to utilize it to its fullest and in the absence proper environment may nerver bloom. So too homosexuality though innate, borderline persons may live their entire lives as normal (straight)suppresing the discomfort they may feel. On the other hand when exposed to conditions that favour homosexuality these borderline case may choose to become gays. And it will be these borderline cases that will make the difference between a society that accepts/promotes/markets homosexuality and a society where it is taboo. The hardcore (hardwired) homosexual in any society will be the same.
Note: On Human behaviour IF there were sufficient motivation (monetary/social mobility/etc) in being gay it is not difficult to imagine the entire population being gay openly and secretly bisexual!
SD:
"Just find me that one man, and I will reconsider my opinions thus far".
Why only that "one MAN"? ...Woman?

26 January, 2007 12:48  
Blogger rummyjohn said...

Jeez, what a lot of invective over something so trivial.

I propose "we" settle the issue by Blaming the West for something tangible - like Colonialization, or Slavery.

The West, in turn, can defend their position by providing moral arguments and publicly acknowledging something "we" had anyways been doing for centuries.

26 January, 2007 21:54  
Anonymous Cotton Eye Joe said...

Al Republican,

Just curious to know what you are doing reading CNN? I thought CNN and BBC was haram to you folks! :-)

Typical hypocrisy! Just like the fact that your religion condemns homosexuality by quoting all sorts of nonsense and yet in your supposedly holy land next door, half the population are practicing gays!! Way to go folks!!!

28 January, 2007 07:13  
Blogger Al-Republican said...

Cotton Eye Joe (bah, a very adequate username for such ludicrous comments):

How does watching CNN and BBC (news channels) constitute to hypocrisy? Try talking some sense, Cotton Brain Joe.

Also, make up your minds: Half the time you guys are crying that Arab guys are womanizers, banging prostitutes left, right, and center. Now you are complaining that they are homosexuals... Ridiculous!

28 January, 2007 16:25  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'Plus Buffy, ER, Scrubs, Boston Legal etc all have lesbian characters. In other words the Media is saying to young girls that its cool to be 'gay' or sexually ambiguous.'

The media is not saying that it is 'cool' to be gay, rather it is saying that it is normal to be gay. For all the teenagers struggling with their sexuality these shows are helping enormously and providing support that certainly wasn't around in my day. No TV show made me a lesbian and I certainly wouldn't have chosen this 'lifestyle' as it certainly hasn't been easy. The discrimination, stereotyping, bullying is not something that makes me jump out of bed everyday I can assure you.

Sure I have read the comments from certain responses that I should sustain from my 'urges' and that it is sinful and wrong and I will be going to hell....but I guess I will join you there as I sure you have done things that are sinful and wrong too.

28 January, 2007 17:19  
Anonymous Cotton Eye Joe said...

Al-Republican,

Of course, I didn't expect you to understand what I was saying!!

It constitutes to hypocrisy because on one hand you folks condemn western media for being anti-islamic and on the other hand, you quote the same media to prove some freakin' point which only you seem to be seeing!!

And if you want any proof of the hanky-panky happenings in your "holy" land, you just need to spend some time there. I had the misfortune of being in that goddammed country when they busted an underground "fashion show" of local men dressed in women's langerie!! And if you want to see a manifestation of this in UAE, well look no further! Take a trip with the Paki taxi drivers in Abu Dhabi! Its been in your blood for centuries and now you hold the west responsible!! Jeez!!!

I rest my case...

29 January, 2007 15:40  
Anonymous Umm Adam said...

I agree that segragation plays a role in the homesxual mischief because it is easier access. My question for the moderate Muslims who seem to oppse segragation is, do you think that desegration and it's effects of having wide spread same gender fornacation, is the lesser of the two evils? If not what exactly is it you propose?

30 January, 2007 19:04  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The civilized world has liberated and empowered women...made them equal to men. No doubt this is a good thing along the way modern women may have lost prices less feminine qualities that even the best cosmetics and beauty aids can restore. The evolution of making women equal to men has stopped just short of making woman into man. Now we will begin at the other end work on the men and make them feminine .... Voila! Equality!
The whole economy will boom fashion, cosmetics, healthcare,you name it everyting.

30 January, 2007 19:48  

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